5xWDC the GREATEST OF ALL TIME?

No, lets see Hamilton drive a race with one gear and win it or on the podium like Senna and MS

 

The goat I can't say until his career is over, but he is definitely top 5 of all time.

 

He's certainly the most TATTOOED.

 

Why should this be the standard? Let's see Senna or Schumi finish 2nd in their rookie year or win a race every year they competed.

 

Cool... another troll thread... [emoji57]

Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk

 

Lewis is the all time pole record holder in the history of F1, but also has over twice as many poles as 8 of the greatest drivers In F1. I like to look at this stat because it is one driver for one lap, no pit stop or team, just a snapshot of what a driver can do at one particular track against the rest of the field.

Rank Driver F1 Most Pole Positions
1 Lewis Hamilton Image Unavailable, Please Login United Kingdom 83 (229 starts)
2 Michael Schumacher Image Unavailable, Please Login Germany 68 (308 starts)
3 Ayrton Senna Image Unavailable, Please Login Brazil 65 (162 starts)
4 Sebastian Vettel Image Unavailable, Please Login Germany 55 (220 starts)
5 Jim Clark Image Unavailable, Please Login United Kingdom 33 (73 starts)
5 Alain Prost Image Unavailable, Please Login France 33 (202 starts)
7 Nigel Mansell Image Unavailable, Please Login United Kingdom 32 (191 starts)
8 Nico Rosberg Image Unavailable, Please Login Germany 30 (206 starts)
9 Juan Manuel Fangio Image Unavailable, Please Login Argentina 29 (53 starts)
10 Mika Häkkinen Image Unavailable, Please Login Finland 26 (165 starts)
11 Niki Lauda Image Unavailable, Please Login Austria 24 (177 starts)
11 Nelson Piquet Image Unavailable, Please Login Brazil 24 (207 starts)

 

^Hamilton had the huge advantage of joining McLaren when it was on top and then leaving and joining Mercedes when they were on their upswing.

My point is these stats are nothing. Put Hamilton in a Torro Rossa for years and see what happens. I don't dismiss Hamilton's talent. He's pretty amazing. But he's had the advantage of being in top teams his entire career and the number 1 driver for most of those.

Schumacher joined Ferrari when they where near the bottom and Senna's career was unfortunately cut short.

 

It's all part of being "fluid"...…...

 

I will concede that he has 5 championships. He won 1 and was gifted 4, but the record books will not show that.
Not looking for a fight, not trolling.

 

Hamilton IS a great driver. If you look at how many times he has outperformed his teammate, stayed out of trouble when others got into it, and found somehow that extra 2 tenths that no one else could find.... that proves it.

So, there's no question of his talent. Is he the best of all time? I don't think so, but it might be pretty close.

 

Someone needs to look at the number of times Hamilton's car has broken over the years. I bet it's very small compared to most drivers. Luck? Talent? Whatever its when you finish a lot of races you're going to score more points than a car that doesn't.

 

MB was a complete gambel, Schumacher couldn’t win at MB and the team was in a mess when Lewis made the leap of faith. Your arugument doesn’t hold water. “Those who take great risk, reap the rewards when they do it right”. Alonso, Lewis, and Seb all took leaps in their careers. Now Lewis’s records don’t matter because he made the right move? Sorry that argument doesn’t hold water. It’s actual the nature of the sport for drivers to take big risk and pick their teams.

 

It's difficult to compare the number of poles of drivers from different eras.

For example, there were less GPs in Clark's time than now, and even less in Fangio's time? So bare stats don't give the whole picture.

But among Hamilton (83p) contemporaries are Vettel (55p), and Nico Rosberg (30p), the stats show that the Brit is head and shoulders above his peers.

 

Wait... if you gamble and win it doesn't count?

Brawn had won a WC already. Merc was having trouble when he joined but they bounced back quickly. McLaren however was falling and Hamilton knew it. Look at how McLaren has done since he left.

To say Merc was a poor team when Hamilton joined is a gross overstatement.

 

Hamilton makes good decisions on the track, and knows how to conduct his career off the track too.

Joining the right team at the right time is just good career strategy, and you cannot blame him for that.

People also tend to forget that he had lean years at McLaren too.

 

I completely agree. He left McLaren when he saw there was no future there.

 

Let"s say Mercedes wasn't a top team or a winning team before Hamilton joined.

So, just like the tifosi claim that Schumacher rebuit the Scuderia, it's no exageration to say that Hamilton took Mercedes into the winning circle after he jouned them.

 

Again, I do not disagree. But as it was with Schumacher, a driver alone cannot make a winning team.

Were Vettel's victories because of Vettel or that superior RB chassis Newey turned out? We will never know but you could argue the answer is yes, it was the chassis that gave him his WDC's

 

By this data alone it is clear that Senna is the GOAT with no doubt. Even though he did many races in **** teams such as Toleman and Lotus, he was to be on pole at 40,1% of the races, whereas Lewis who have raced for top teams since his first race got 34,2%.

 

Let's agree then that Ferrari breaking its duck after 23 years and Mercedes starting a period of domination strangely coincided with the arrival of Schumacher and Hamilton respectively.

I know there were/are team orders at some point, but these 2 clearly outclassed their team mates most of the time.

Schumacher was the best Ferrari driver of his era, against Irvine, Barichello and else, and Hamilton was regularly faster than Rosberg and now Bottas.

I say that in spite of the fact that I quite liked Nico.

 

To some degree, today's race was much like Hamilton's career. No one really challenged him. And when Hamilton is challenged he can be rather thin skinned. Nico was able to get under it. Bottas seems to understand not to bother.

He's a great driver because he finds a way to win easy.

 

Hang on, how much testing was allowed in 2013 - from what I remember everything changed after the "private/secret" Merc Pirelli test. Hamilton's first Merc win came about a month after that. Prior to that the Mercs were quick but tyre degradation was their issue which was conveniently solved and brushed under the carpet. Brawn, not Hamilton took Merc to the next level.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/22819582

Best,
Sammy

 

1) Fangio
2) Senna
3) Clark

IMHO