I did this sheet with the data of the 3x8 engine family, from 1973 to 1987: nothing special, but hope you like it ciao Image Unavailable, Please Login
it's amazing how the 308 engine block was always the same up to the 360 model: just the F430 has a brand new block. It lasted 30+ years ciao
that's correct. They are the Euro model specs, that include the Italian ones. Note that all the 71 mm stroke engines share the same crankshaft (288 GTO included). The two liters (all) were for the Italian market only, but some were exported and sold as new abroad. ciao
I think, the higher horsepower numbers for the early carb cars are no SAE-CV. For SAEgross the difference to DIN seems to small, for SAEnet too big. I think, those 255 are Cuna-horses. Literature says approx. 10-15% difference between DIN and Cuna. That would match. Best from Germany Martin
your opinion is always welcome. But all those written are official Ferrari data released by Ferrari to Quattroruote magazine for the official price list and data they had at the end of each monthly issue. They were not CUNA: SAE, I personally checked many times. They copied what Ferrari sent them, and those were official data, not the ones they put on the sale brochure (with dry weight, SAE power or what else they wanted, just to make their product look even better than real). That's the old story: 255 Hp (SAE) - 230 DIN for the early GT4 and 308 GTB-GTS. This is what I read in 1974, 1975, 1980-2-5-7 on that magazine, Always very accurate and professional: it's our best car magazine since 1956. ciao
Another can-o-worms. The difference between SAE and DIN still doesn't match, what you can read in all the technical, automotive literature. Not popular car magazines. If it is not Cuna, one of the values (DIN or SAE) seems to be wrong. With SAEgross, the SAE value would have to be much bigger compared to 230 DIN-hp. Or with an SAEgross-value of 255 hp, the DIN-value would be much less. With SAEnet it would be close to the DIN-value. And SAEnet was the common value from 1972 onwards. CUNA is the only thing, which would almost perfectly match the 230/255 discrepancy. But who knows, whether the Italians simply called their CUNA-value 'SAE', since Cuna was unknown to the rest of the world back then anyway. The same questions arise when I look into my '72 Alfa 2000 GTV datasheet. 132 DIN-hp vs. 150 SAE-hp. Has anyone ever dyno'ed a stock carb Euro car under DIN-conditions? Best from Germany Martin
You can see the Dino data in SAE and the Ferrari data in DIN (there is the star aside) Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It just came to my mind, that complicating things, the specified hp-output relates to different rpms. According to my registration documents it is 230DIN-hp at 6.600 1/min. as apposed to your 255 SAE-hp at 7.700 1/min. Where do we go from here? Best from Germany Martin
You'll have to agree that manufacturer HP ratings from the 70s are just plain sketchy (Sometimes inflated by leaving things off during the measurement like a water pump and/or alternator and/or exhaust system, and sometimes purposely deflated for insurance and/or tax reasons.)
Alberto, I know all these charts and sheets from car magazines, books, sales brochures, etc. Also those power and torque graphs, which add to further confusion, because they show more different values. I just wanted to start a discussion with own thoughts about these discrepancies regarding hp specs and DIN, SAE, Cuna, CV. O.k., didn't work. Best from Germany Martin
I don't see the problem, Martin: you already wrote your opinion, but if you want you can write again any idea you have. We can discuss for years, but we don' know how things were: why 7700 RPM, as we all know that's the engine redline? You cannot have top power at the same RPM value after that the engine fails. So, who knows. Maybe data of a prototype 308 engine that never went into production? Who knows. A Ferrari error on the data sheet? Who knows. "Marketing" inflated data? Who knows. We can do just a lot of suppositions: I think, in my opinon, and so on. There are just two certain facts: they gave Quattroruore magazine 255 Cv SAE @7700 RPM as power value. And then, when Italian rulemets forced them to give just the DIN measured power data, they changed it to 230 cv @ 6600 RPM. If you are looking for a dispute, I'm not interested into going on, but if you want to write your opinion another time you can do it. of course: this is a free forum and you can write as many posts as you want. The opening was about the 308 engine evolution, seen through a data sheet I did (for free and for you all): if you don't like it, there is no problem at all, as i wrote it for the community, for all and for free. And it's not necessary that everyone likes it. ciao
It's like the holy Bible, Alberto. One takes it 'carved in stone. The other likes to discuss. Both are Christians But since you're an engineer I hoped, that you would have some fun in scrutinizing things. I have. Best Regards from Germany Martin
Engineers cannot discuss about the holy Bible: I already did the specific question to one of the engine designers team (he is a friend, the engine was designed in 1971) and the only answer was… a smile. He only confirmed that 7700 is the RPM design limit for that engine (and 7800 RPM for the lighter piston and valves 208 engine). At this point we can all think what we want: it's more a discussion for priests, as the official technician did not answer and so we can all just do suppositions. You can write which are your suppositions, as everyone else. I would more appreciate (from an engineer you are) a comment like: the 308 crankshaft and crankcase must be very strong, as it can stand the 400 HP of 288 GTO (same crankshaft) and the 785 hp of F40 Le Mans (same crankcase). That is, in my opinion what a good engineer could write, not guessing without knowing. So, you wanted my opinion: in my opinion it was just a marketing move, but I have no evidence of that so I trust what Ferrari wrote. Ciao
