[QUOTE="Brian A, post: 146342647] My opinion is that the claim that the Classiche program has killed vintage racing is unfounded. There are bigger forces at play.[/QUOTE] And you know this to be true because... Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I totally agree. Sure, some vintage race car owners bowed out of these events if Classiche was a requirement and they didn’t want to participate under those terms. That’s fine. Totally their prerogative. But, more likely, over time many of these owners woke up and discovered their cars are worth millions (in some cases tens of millions) of dollars. Who the heck can blame them? If I had a vintage racer worth $20 million, a nice parade around the track would be just fine.
Your speculations have nothing to do with facts. You just don't get it. They are now racing elsewhere at much more interesting events. Even against their contemporary competitors. I gave the example of Le Mans Classic. Where they even race deep in the night to deliver the atmosphere of the real event to the spectators. You really seem to be a fanboy of Classiche, only wanting to hear/read what's fitting into your blind love. You registered in 2017 here. The cars we are talking about were already worth millions when they raced at vintage events in the 90s and 2000s. And these cars were built for racing, not for bragging while doing nice parades. And I second the question from 'Texas Forever' from post #77. Would be interested too. Best from Germany Martin
I’m sure youry right, Dave, but I’d still have it restored here in the US. Those are the shops I’m familiar with. Although, I don’t see having this problem anytime soon as owning a great vintage car is out of my reach.
If you mean Rick, I've been awaiting a reply from him for a while and the lack of has turned me off a bit. Plus, as he would admit, he is more of a fabricator than paint shop.
Has anyone had the program point out something wrong with their post 1980 Ferrari that no one ever noticed before ? And, taking this in another direction, has anyone had a car go thru and Ferrari missed something obviously wrong?
In my case, no. They were very thorough. In fact, the Classiche team in Italy twice came back and requested additional photo verification on items before they would advance my application to the committee for approval. Again, many confuse Classiche as similar to a concours judging process. In truth, Classiche essentially verifies that a cars numbers are matching and it’s major componants in original spec. It doesn’t so much care if your leather is a bit worn, as some would have you believe.
That’s correct, but there is a difference between simple cosmetics and a car that isn’t properly cared for and maintained, which is a standard to judge. Maybe he can more clearly define that. I’m not an expert. He would know much better than me.
I am a bit confused .. judging from this post it seems you have already went through the Classiche program before? Unsure why you would solicit questions of procedure after the fact. Noticed in another thread where you mentioned the sale of your 488. If this is the case (which it seems) you are certainly no stranger to the process . Not Bashing you, just trying to understand what your concerns are now.
I’ve been through the Classiche process once with my 328 and I currently have an application in for my 355. I’m not soliciting anything on this thread. Like others, I’m just contributing to the discussion because it’s a topic of interest to me. You may be confusing me with the OP who originally posted this thread.
While the decay of the Historic Challenge was just annoying, further things make me angry. These are: Instead of offering fancy red books for huge money, they should offer us worthy spare parts. There's something similar like 'Classiche certified'. It's called 'Maranello approved' for spare parts reproductions officially sold in the yellow/back box. With this signet we get POS waterpumps and belt tensioners for instance. O.k., at least those are cheap. But for the trash can still too expensive. Even for 288 GTOs or F40s they aren't ashamed to put the MP stamp onto such chinese and indian crap. Does a car get 'Classiche', if they find the great Hill tensioners on the engine? I think not, since they are clearly visible, after opening the hood . At least on the V8 cars without camdrive back covers. And there are 'Maranello approved' POS-tensioners readily available. I cannot take a department seriously, which appears to be specialized in the classic stuff, but supplies us with inferior parts quality. I would be immediately ready to pay a reasonable, though higher price for a quality part. But what to take, if originals or well made stuff is NLA. And yes, I'm aware, that the spare parts business is managed by Sytner (formerly FerrariUK, Maranello Concessionaires), but I think the decisions are made in Italy, where they 'certify' poor parts as 'Maranello approved'. I fear all this is the result of no more enthusiastic people in Maranello and of their IPO three years ago. At this stage, the customer is no more the most important protagonist, but the shareholder. Best Regards from Germany Martin
Martin, please don't transform this thread about the Classiche first certificate program (that everyone can like or not, of course) in a social fight against Ferrari: if you don't like Ferrari, its spare parts service and the spare availability (all off topic) you can skip to another car, a Porsche or which you want. And please open a new thread to speak about it. Thank you very much. ciao
Shockingly, you and I actually agree on something. I also wish that the factory would issue quality parts for older cars. I would also add that some of the superseded parts that are currently issued are similar, at best, to the originals. An example - I needed to replace the door sills on my 355 because they were dented when I bought the car. The factory does issue door sills (that I purchased from Dave at Sticky RX) but I needed to have them professionally refinished to match the originals. I love Ferrari and I think they run an incredible business. In the factory’s defense, if there was a robust demand to react to for parts they would respond, like any business. Alas, my guess is that the secondary industry of parts solutions will continue to grow. For those like myself that put a very high premium on originality and OEM parts (even when inferior) our struggles will grow. We will likely need to stock pile parts when we are lucky to find them, and refurbish certain parts when needed. I’m assuming that even older, vintage car owners/restorers have had to deal with this issue for some time. They have obviously found solutions, though likely not inexpensive ones.
Alberto, like you said. Everyone is allowed to express his opinion. Wherever and whenever he wants. And my opinion is, that's it not so much off-topic, because the business behaviour regarding Classiche and 'Maranello approved' crappy spare parts have something to do with each other. I like my car. But I don't like the company any more since they went public in 2015. But I will satisfy your wish and keep silence. These are my closing words quoting and agreeing Aussie friend's 'Aircon' opinion on another Classiche thread : Image Unavailable, Please Login Best Regards Martin
I agree that seemingly Ferrari could make a killing on reproduction of obsolete parts but the truth is, the work to do so and the management is extreme. In the end, the volume of each part as a spare is rather low so the costs to produce go way up. Making new injection molds, etc is a very costly and timely exercise and that is just not the business model for Ferrari. Those activities fall to the after market world such as the items we reproduce and others such as Hill Engineering.
probably 70% of the parts on a Ferrari model were made and/or designed by a supplier. Ferrari never owned the IP or the tooling, only the Branding.. when the supplier bowed out or went out of business long after the model was out of production.. Ferrari just let it go as it was too expensive to retool and build those parts on their own. Its not an uncommon problem for any large manufacturer.
That is very true with the exception that injection molds are almost always the property of the OEM - they pay for them. Certainly an OEM can choose to role the tooling into the piece price and in that case the supplier owns the tooling but most manufacture want to own the tooling so they can pull it if a supplier is not performing.
