Official Countach Value Thread

Not interested personally in anyones WISH LIST.. what they WANT or FEEL about how anything "should be". Grown ups live in a
World of facts and reality. Markets are what they are, and never driven by just one factor.
Imo Nils makes a point that the good news is, in the countach market, the f.i. cars are a bargain and even if they do come down they will be launched into the stratosphere during the next recovery.

 

This.

 

Please explain why qv5000 post reg dd versus fi prod nmbrs are wrong, beeing the fi cars where US/ CAN bound only,with a few exeptions, while ROW got the dd, are you saying the US market recieved 50% of the cars produced from 85-89? Also you got ALL these heavy hitters,confused with my wording SOME, read my post,and yes i know of 3 fi right now.

 

As with the BB512, FI CTs will always be worth less than equivalent condition carb cars. Comparing them to 959s, F40s etc. based upon numbers produced and their availability with FI is silly, those cars were never produced in a carb variant. The F40 was sold in both US vs. ROW spec, but to boost value of the US market version it had slightly more power and is more serviceable without rubber bladder fuel tanks. In comparison the FI version of the CT has no performance or maintenance benefits. In fact, it is slower, heavier and more complicated to maintain than the carb cars, not to mention it has a different intake sound (which most people like less). Maybe rare, but that is a function of relative sizes of markets and emissions laws in the 1980s.

If a carb 5000S, QV or Anniversary variant ever hits $1M, the equivalent condition FI version will be less. Does that make the FI car a bargain? I guess it depends on how much less.

Ironically, about 10 years ago I bought several sets of unused LP5000S carb inlet manifolds on eBay for cheap. Seems they were removed in the US some time in the past to add FI to at least 5 cars which were federalized. If I were ever to buy a FI version of that car, the manifolds would be handy.

 

You once mentioned your carbs where more out of sync than inn. My fi is untouched with exeption of copper flat washers on the fuel distributor/fuel injector line connection,wich i did for the heck of it,while replacing all rubber hoses,at the time i first bought the car,11 years ago, beeing these are the differences between fi and dd, not shure i understand the complicated to maintain comment. No comment on the value.

 

I have carb cars (BB and CT) and 2 FI cars. By far my CIS cars (TR and Mondial QV) have had more difficult to diagnose problems over the last decade, needing fuel pumps, relays, pressure regulators, cold start injectors, accumulators, O2 sensors, etc. The carb cars have no meaningful emissions equipment, and basically benefit from cleaning carb jets, changing plugs and occasionally changing the accelerator pump diaphrams. And an occasional Italian tune up.

 

fair enough, my experience with fi has been very maintenance easy, Testarossa, 328,now Countach, and a few Porsches, the tr had a fuel pump go bad,thats it,my go to work car for 3 years

 

I do not sell cars. I am a buyer.
Well then my list was very accurate (with the exception of the QV FI) for someone who is not in the business.

Rarity is one factor, not the deciding one.
The point about the QV FI is that is is miscategorized, overlooked, and not appreciated. You mention drivability standpoint of the DD compared with the LP400. I agree. But carburaters are not as easy to live with compared to FI, which works in favor of the FI’s desirability. Its all about your perspective.
It could be that the majority of the market is made up of older buyers that are more comfortable and familiar with Carburaters like Jay Leno when be bought his DD (watch Jay Leno’s garage with the Countach). Whatever the reason, the current market’s view on the QV FI should improve based on many factors. The air-cooled Porsche 911s of the 80s and 90s “suddenly” became hot a few years ago. That market changed. No reason why the same awakening cannot happen when it comes to the QV FI going forward.

Regardless of value, as a buyer, the most modern Countach in true form is the QV FI - this is a fact. And for me, there is zero desirability of having carburetors. That is actually the one negative aspect about the DD. In a perfect world the QV would have been FI with 455 hp.

 

Does this suggest that had the 959, F40, 288 GTO been available with Carbs then those versions would be even worth more?
In other words those cars could be worth more had they had Carbs?
Trying to undersrand why carbs are a good thing?

 

They rev quicker, sound better on intake, and are totally mechanical. They are actually very easy to live with, look really great and are now iconic among the masses just because. People aspire to own old carb cars for all those reasons.

Are there 100s of thousands of FI v12s with 4 valves? Yes, yes there are. Therefore they will be overlooked by collectors.

There is only 1 DD 4v engine for the street. It will always be this way and will never change. It happens to be in a Countach.

If you like FI cars and have had good luck with them thats great.

They are cheaper so go buy one if your a buyer.

People are telling you how its always been and how it currently is.

No ones ever going to convince you otherwise so please let the thread populate as normal. Thanks.

 

I think a GTO with a 455hp Carb V12 4v would be worth $10m+ and cement itself as the greatest F supercar of them all for all time.

 

16 posts and nearly all of them about the value of the FI QV. Are you looking to move the car soon? If not, why worry about it? If you are, I don’t think you’re going to move the market here.

 

Man, come down,last time you got exited,I got kicked off the DD tread,now ,thats unfair,to me,lol

 

Lol.

 

We can share a laugh, but I’m far from excited.

Don’t let it strike a nerve I think What I said was based in reality.

 

Do not recall 917 porsches or any significant winning 70s race car with carbs,heck even big alu Chevys in can am,had fuel injection, i would agree the 4 valve v12 carb one and only is cool,but please,drop the performance bs, do we not know better?

 

A Hilborn injection system is a far cry from what is lurking under your engine cover.

 

Hmm true,but still a pump and lines running to each induvidual cylinder,actually spraying gas inn to the cylinder head under pressure, beats the old butterflies and selfsuction method,with the Acc pump giving a little squirt once the pedal is depressed,

 

So why doesn't it make more hp?

 

Old Bosch mechanical injection IS NOT modern fuel injection thats for sure. As far as living with carbs.. i dont know..going on 11 years, i dont think im a neglectful owner but all i have done is sprayed cleaner at them once a year LOL.
Seems to start and run fine- should i have been adjusting these things all these years? LOL

 

It does,if cleared of emission, and good exhaust, but as with the carbed version,intended to be used on a dayly basis,iow last a few years,for you and me.the Countach was never intended to be anything but a fast exotic,wich it does very well.both in carb and fi,

 

No problem with carbs, just responding to the negative against fi, the qv works great with both,given the right exhast,take a Swiss dd with box muffler and no headers, i am willing to bet the US fi is quicker,as delivered,crappy exhaust and all

 

Sure, which 3 cars are being restored by which 3 Heavy Hitters?

100% correct.

An experienced engine builder of renown has just told me the exact same thing.

The opposite is true.

A special GTO has just turned down $6m so your premise has merit

Exactly.

 

CIS injection on a CT is different from EFI (as found on an F40). CIS cars are slower than carb versions because the air mass flow measurement mechanism cannot deal with much overlap in the cam timing, the pressure waves arising from both intake and exhaust valves being open at the same time confuse it. That is why CIS FI CTs have different, less aggressive cams (different part numbers) than carb cars. CIS FI cams have less overlap and thus less peak power.

EFI can overcome it as it can precisely control fuel delivery regardless of airflow. I have driven my 91 TR (CIS) back to back with a friend’s 92 512TR (EFI) and the 512 simply has more top end rev, due to more aggressive cams.

 

I have explained this exact same thing in detail in this discussion before.

It is exactly why the factory deliberately used carbs for their performance Countach, significant that Lamborghini was the only company that dared to provide a standout carbed hot-rod engine, whilst all the other makers had followed the trend of all cars being emission-focused fuel-injected.

I should add to what you have said that we also now know that many old Bosch mechanical fuel-injection systems no longer operate optimally.

Also, the notion that carbs are difficult to live with or that the Fuelie is somehow more drive-able than the Downdraft is completely untrue, as every single one of the half-dozen Countachs with six-figure high mileage (say 100,000 - 200,000 plus) I'm aware of is a carbureted Downdraft.