Countach QV FI Thread

There seems to be some confusion out there about the side skirts on a 5000 QV and what exactly a 1988.5 model is. The 1988.5 model is not a 1988 with side skirts. The factory side skirts were on some cars (not all) for model years 1987 and 1988 on both FI and DD (although they seem to be more common on the FI versions). The 1988.5 Countach is a 1988 model year car (built in 1988 just before the commencement of Anniversary production) with the Electronic climate control system that was also on the Anniversary model (probably Chrysler's first contribution to the Countach after its purchase).

 

Regarding 5000 QV production (610 total from 1985-1988), was the FI version only available as a 1986, 1987 and 1988 model? Some of the early US cars were 1986 DD (about 13 imported, of which Jay Leno's car) therefore was the FI produced for one less year than the DD version?

 

Jay Leno’s Car was originally a middle eastern car.

 

Sure.

What chassis number & what price?

Classic & sports car markets do not work on the basis of logic or rational reason, and there are literally hundreds of examples, thinking about Lamborghini, one that comes to mind would be a Miura P400SV which brings (as we saw on Saturday) almost $1,000,000 more than a Miura P400, even though they are both 4 liters and carbureted, and the power difference might only be 25 bhp. Seemingly small things can make a big difference to value, that's the reason 250 GTOs are $50 million more than 250 GTs.

88.5 is simply a moniker that dates back to1988 when USA dealers were stocking the new side-skirted cars and wanted a way to differentiate them from from the late1987 skirtless production prior to @ October 1987, so 88.5 covers all production from the fall of 1987 onwards, as strange as that sounds.

Once the factory started delivering cars with side-skirts, they did not intersperse production with non-skirted cars as is often asserted, all production cars from the fall of 1987 onwards had side-skirts. A 1987 car without side skirts delivered during side-skrted production period had simply had it's delivery delayed, as we often have seen with Sant Agata production during the era.

FWIW, climate control was planned pre-Chrysler as the owner's manual below shows.

The Fuelie was available as a 1985 (FLA designation of which many exist), 1986, 1987 & 1988, it was produced for the same span as the Downdraft, it was the emissions version of the Countach QV and the Downdraft was the performance version of the Countach QV, so the two were produced simultaneously.

The Downdrafts that were imported into to the USA by Joe Nastasi were not 'USA production ' cars at all, Nastasi simply imported them using his status as the factory concessionaire and subjected them to compliance agent conformation, just as any private importer would. These were European cars subjected to DOT mandates after arrival in the USA. It's also worth mentioning that the so-called number of 13 is a complete myth parroted & copied by many people over the years, speak to Nastasi himself and he will confirm this.

Correct

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Oh did not know that.

What about 1988 DD cars? I have seen some with skirts while most seem to not to have them.
I have also seen cars presented as "1987" with side skirts, would this be an error by people listing them?
The reason I asked about the 1985 year was because at the beginning of this thread the FI version is listed as 1986-1988 even though the QV is a 1985-1988.
As for the number 13, this is the number that is thrown around a lot and I do not have first-hand knowledge on what the actual number is. I did not mean that the DDs imported were US cars but rather that they were early imports of the QV into the US market.
Interesting about Jay Leno, he must have imported it privately?
With regard to the Miura, the SV is superior to the P400 and there were visual differences. The SV is the best and most developed version of the Miura much like the QV is for the Countach.
I doubt that Lamborghini intended the US version to be a less performing version of the QV. I think the 420 hp and whatever performance advantage the DD may have is the result of the emissions control on the car. In other words, it should have put out 455 hp but the end result was 420 hp due to the emissions equipment. The FI engine was carried forward to the Diablo onwards and continued to evolve, it was "the" engine not the compromise.
Its true that the market does not always function on logic and rationality and there are plenty of examples but the Countach QV FI remains a rare car and visually almost identical to the DD version (assuming its "corrected") except for 1) bonnet cover 2) front bumper has different fog light location and no grills, 3) rear exhaust grill setup and angle of tail pipes, 4) side reflectors and reverse light. In the end, the closest thing to a QV DD is a QV FI and the market should realize that and value accordingly.

 

There are no JLA-prefix QVs (from fall 1987 onwards) that do not have side skirts, the notion that some 1988 cars do not have side-skirts is incorrect, perhaps you are looking at a car built before October 1987 that is being referred to in the USA as a "1988" car.

Jay purchased his Downdraft after it had already been brought into the USA.

You missed the point about the Miura SV, the point is, in reality they use the same carbureted engine and there is just 25 bhp between a P400 and an SV, and yet the latter car costs a million more, one could argue that a P400 and an SV are more similar than a Fuelie and a Downdraft, underscoring as many many examples do the fact that markets do not work on the basis of logic or rational reason.

The fact that Lamborghini intended the Fuelie to be the emissions version of the QV and the Downdraft the performance version of the QV is self-evident as borne out by the specification of the cars themselves, but for good measure, it has been affirmed in recent times separately by both Lamborghini SpA's CEO and Chief Engineer from the QV production period.

 

I get your point about the Miura but do not agree that it is a good comparable.

RM Sotheby's sold ZA9CA05A4JLA12214 in 2015 and listed it as a 1988. The photos indicate that the car was built in 07-1987 thus this car is actually a 1987? Even RM Sotheby's does not list them correctly.
The link: https://rmsothebys.com/mo15/monterey/lots/1988-lamborghini-countach-5000-qv/1076259

If the "Fuelie" is to be considered as the less desirable "emissions" QV with 420 hp by the market then what can be said about previous variants with 375 hp? What would make those more desirable to a buyer or collector? With the exception of the Periscopo (Variant # 1) and the Series 1 "S" with Bravo wheels, the other cars all look the same (except for some lower body examples) but are less powerful and offer less performance that a QV FI. As a buyer/ collector, its usually desirable to go after the best versions of a model or a rare version of a model. Only the QVs fulfilled the true intention of what a Countach was supposed to be equipped with (5.2L V12 with over 400 hp). The QV FI's performance can only be challenged by the QV DD and is one of the lower production Countachs. There is plenty about a QV FI to mark all the check boxes of desirability.

 

carbs carbs carbs. This convo needs to end.

 

Francesco (if that is your real name), I know you are not so naïve as to take an auction catalog for gospel, the car is was built in July 1987 as shown below so its a 1987, never mind what the auction company said. Also, the reason it does not have side-skirts is because it was built before October of that year, all cars after that had the skirts, this is a simple production detail and I think perhaps you are creating confusion for yourself where there needn't be any.

BTW, I think the Miura analogy is an excellent one which makes the point precisely, small differences can mean huge value disparities

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My car must be one of the last non skirt cars,its 10 87

 

After almost 2 months on vacation came home and the Countach started right up, the Testarossa.....not so much

 

Same Bosch fuel injection system right?
My buddy let his sit for a year during a divorce.. new battery and started right up LOL. Ran rough for 15 minutes then cleared right up.

 

I agree that it is a 1987. My point was that even auction houses put out the wrong information. The information regarding side skirts is clear. Just wanted to confirm that the date of manufacture will determine the true model year regarding 1987-1988 cars.

 

Yes, in general it’s misrepresented - in the real world where you would actually go shop around for these cars.
Does that satisfy you? Or should I give actual examples so you would be less offended at my remark?

 

Yes, I just charged the battery and and the TR was good to go.

 

Off we went today..
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Nobody here needed your explanation to begin with.. that was my point. Now you want to offer examples?
Are you joking..? Im quite certain You have Nothing to teach Me about the Countach. Thanks anyway.

 

Well nobody but you seems offended at the fact that I brought that up. I am not trying to teach you anything and no, I was not serious about providing examples.

There may be one thing that can be derived from my post after all... since ALL 1988 models have the side skirts and later production 1988 cars had the electronic climate control, those later production models with electronic AC could be more appropriately referred to as "1988.5" cars in reference to the earlier 1988 cars.

 

Doesn't literally everyone in the car community know that auction houses consistently put out erroneous information in their catalog texts, and, who would be so naïve as to use auction house information as the sole basis for Countach specification or data?

You now say the information regarding the skirts is clear, and that is good, but just a few posts ago you said "There seems to be some confusion out there about the side skirts on a 5000 QV and what exactly a 1988.5 model is", so, were you confused then and are now clear?

FWIW:

You also said in that earlier post that "The 1988.5 model is not a 1988 with side skirts" which is incorrect.

You also said "The factory side skirts were on some cars (not all) for model years 1987 and 1988 on both FI and DD (although they seem to be more common on the FI versions)" which is also incorrect.

You then said "The 1988.5 Countach is a 1988 model year car (built in 1988 just before the commencement of Anniversary production) with the Electronic climate control system that was also on the Anniversary model (probably Chrysler's first contribution to the Countach after its purchase)" which is also not entirely accurate.

Correct.

This too, is not entirely correct.

 

You misunderstood me. I was not attempting to use a car listing as an authority on the subject. I was using that listing as an example of an error so that you would confirm that it was indeed an error.

OK then please explain what is the difference between an 1988 and a 1988.5?
You said ALL 1988 came with side skirts and that 88.5 was a dealer gimmick for marketing purposes.
At this point in time, why would we be referring to a car as 1988.5? Why not just use 1988? The only little difference I was aware of was that later 1988 cars had electronic AC. What other aspects make it a 1988.5?
For something that is so clear to everyone here, the replies seem to be vague...

 

I was under the impression that the dash vents were also changed in the 88.5 to the long narrow slits that continued into the anniversary models.

 

My car ,10-87 does have the long dash vents

 

That’s very interesting.
I’m thinking out loud, but a late year (10/87) production date would have made it at least an “88” if not 88.5.

Does your car have the digital temperature control?

 

No,and no side skirts