F430 manual vs Speciale appreciation

It´s like saying nobody wants the muscle cars of the 60´s today. I think there will always be a demand for a screaming V8s or V12s but the demand also depends on the gasoline availability and the possibility to drive the cars on public roads.

 

Time will tell.
I think we’re at a real pivot point in the development of vehicles and even our attitudes towards them.
Like almost all of my friends, I couldn’t wait to get a drivers license ....went to do the written test the week of my 16th birthday.
My nieces and nephews couldn’t care less and act like they may not even get a license until they’re in their 20s. Are these kids going to want guzzling, polluting muscle cars? They’ve grown up with a stigma against them ...all they talk about is saving the planet, sustainability etc.

I’m not sure history will be as reliable a predictor of auto desirability as it has been.

 

You don’t need a mass produced kit. All you need are factory parts. A clutch pedal set, stick shift mechanism, the trans doesn’t change....replace the F1 brain boxes, remove paddles, change the steering wheel surround, a lot of other bits and pieces and adjustments down below, disconnect the upshift/downshift light in the dash, someone that knows what their doing can do it in about 30 hours labor. Probably $15k in parts.

 

I used to own a Speciale now own a F430 Manual Coupe which of course is not faster but is more engaging and an absolute joy to drive... This is my car here... (13) MANUAL Ferrari F430 - Why Don't Modern Ferraris Sound Like This? #DriveEveryFerrari | TheCarGuys.tv - YouTube

 

you can make an f1 transmission 430 into a manual transmission 430. the price delta for this after market conversion is nearly the same as a factory MT.

so at a certain point, if it is simply of the enjoyment of rowing the gears, all of the f1's can be converted ad nauseum....hence the limited number of originals will lose its price impact.

 

and, i forgot to say....the large number of speciales currently on offer, likely represents the general notion that car prices are too high....and people are trying to get out while they can do at a profit.

but this is an apples to oranges comparison on several levels....

 

On BaT, multiple recent factory gated f430s selling for >300k, but all converted f430s were< 200k.

I think it’s safe to say you won’t lose any money converting a 430, you can always sell it at a price that, at minimum, includes the additional conversion cost.

However, as long as there are people still willing to pay for classiche certification, pass on a car due to stick-on shields, or inquire about the whereabouts of the oem Maglite and battery charger, factory gated cars will carry a big premium.

 

This is not the case at all.

Converted cars are generally worth somewhere around the midpoint of the difference between a factory manual and F1 gearbox car, if all specs/mileage are the same.

For example:

2006 Red/tan F430 Coupe F1 with 25k miles, $130k

2006 Red/tan F430 Coupe 6-spd with 25k miles, $310k

Approximate 2006 red/tan F430 Coupe 6-spd conversion with 25k miles, ($130k + $310k)/ 2 = $220k

Factory MT trade for a significant premium over converted cars.

 

ok.
for the moment.....

as much as i like the 430, anybody paying 310k for a factory manual needs to reassess their priorities.
and, anybody paying 90k more for a factory manual than a conversion also needs to reassess.....

btw, does anybody realize that the manual in a 430 is the same basic unit, with reinforcements, that started life in the 355? its not as if this is an ideal manual gearbox for this engine with the higher torque...

 

Frankly, I never thought that the 430 was that good looking. This idea that it was "the last of" as a reason for high prices is silly to me. You can still a manual in a GT3 which is a far superior car to the 430 and I am not a Porsche guy. If you are looking at more collectable manuals, I would much rather look at a V12 which is far more special than the 430. The "manual premium" is just one more bubble to burst. Rarity in a relatively produced model does not always mean better just that fewer desired it at the time.

 

I’m definitely a Porsche guy, and I agree a gt3 will outperform the 430 in every way, but, that doesn’t take anything away from the 430. Both in f1, and especially gated, it feels special, sounds amazing, looks amazing (imo), and has not, nor will be replicated by any other manufacturer since it’s time. Porsches are awesome, but they lack the drama, the v8 bark and scream, and are too refined. I’m obviously biased though.

 

I guess cars that were unloved at time of release seem to gravitate towards each other

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

355 gearbox:
Image Unavailable, Please Login

F430 gearbox:
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Completely different architecture

 

Speciales popped


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

ok. mea culpa

 

Dino is beautiful to me with a great view from the driver's seat . F430 not so much. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I always felt that the 430 did not share the grace or flow of lines as well as the 360 or 458.

 

Factory originals will always command a premium over conversions. Period.

Most of these conversions are using non-factory parts as multiple parts (gearbox turret, outside gearbox controls, and clutch/brake pedals to name a few) have been NLA from Ferrari for years. I have also seen plenty of corner cutting to get the e-diff to work right (in some cars it is not working properly at all).

It's like the replicas that have been built for 250 GTO owners who want to go racing. They are identical to the factory cars and provide the exact same driving experience, but it wasn't built by Ferrari so is worth $1-2MM vs. $50MM+.

If you think $310k for a factory manual 430 is high (people have recently paid >400), you definitely shouldn't look at factory gated 599 prices...

The gearbox in the 430 is virtually identical to the unit found in the 360, not the 355.

 

yes, i already agreed that i mispoke on the origins of the 430 gearbox.
no i am not in the market to buy any 430 manual or 599 manual, factory or after market.
i think the whole craze for paying up for these is just stupid.
plenty of MT cars in the ferrari line up to choose from that had the MT as the only option. i have a few of them

 

I agree with what you say about original vs conversions but, how can it be that these multi-million dollar “original” cars only have about 50%, or less, of the parts that they came out of the factory with? Take any 1960’s model that was restored for example. How original are they? Many have only a chassis and a few body panels that are original.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Hi My F430 manual is going up for sale soon lots of carbon 23k miles FSH S-line exhaust Scudding Swiss lights upgrade
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

A left hand drive would be worth double no doubt.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Hi yip you are right but someone going to get a very good car

 

8,500-Mile 2007 Ferrari F430 6-Speed Conversion for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $193,000 on June 24, 2022 (Lot #76,970) | Bring a Trailer

vs

2005 Ferrari f430 w/ manual trans - Car Interior Parts - Dallas, Texas | Facebook Marketplace | Facebook

 

Haha, no the GT3 manual is NOT superior to the manual F430 in any way shape or form. Ask me how I know? I have both, just acquired a 991.2 GT3 touring and have had an F430 converted to manual by EAG using one of their last OEM set of parts back right at start of pandemic. You can't double clutch the GT3 because of the flat foot shift software used in the manual GT3. In contrast the manual F430 is an absolute delight to rev match manually with an amazing throttle response and great shifter action. Drove both today back to back and manual F430 is most fun you can have I a manual short of a Carrera GT.

Finally for all those mocking conversion manual F430, here is a nugget to munch on. There are no DME reports on F430 like there are on modern manual Porsches which tell you if the engine has been overrevved because of a missed downshift.

Soooo that's one huge aspect where the converted F430 is better than a manual from the factory. How so? Well I know for a fact that my F1 F430 at 22k miles had been protected by software from overeving and money shift and since conversion at 22k miles I have had ownership and know it hasn't been overrevved or had a bad missed shift that could shorten engine life. You don't have such assurance when you buy a manual F430 from the factory when a DME engine overrev report is not available or that data is simply not recorded by ECU anywhere.

 

Thank you for letting Damien/Car guys review your car, loved that recent video. He still doesn't think it's more fun/better than his 458... love their channel

I also enjoy watching Harry's garage review of the manual F430 especially with his historical perspectives on the car at its release.