Jump started F430, now dies at idle after being driven for 10-15 min. | FerrariChat

Jump started F430, now dies at idle after being driven for 10-15 min.

Discussion in '360/430' started by 911&F430, Dec 25, 2018.

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  1. 911&F430

    911&F430 Karting

    Oct 14, 2014
    131
    Atlanta
    Did not drive it for ~1.5 months but had it on OE trickle charger. Battery was dead. Perhaps trickle charger not working correctly. I got it to start today with one of those little jump starters from Costco. I figured, great, I'll take it for a nice long drive to get the battery fully charged.

    Got about a mile down the road and the "CST off" warning comes on as does the brake warning. Messing with the Manettino dial doesn't fix it so I pull into a parking lot to check the owner's manual re: one other warning light of which I was not sure. After sitting there for a minute or two the car abruptly dies

    Call roadside assistance for a jump. Seems to be running fine after that with no warning lights on the dash. So I figure to go home, let it idle for a while just to make sure it is going to be fine and then go on my drive. About 15 min after the jump and five to ten min of idling it abruptly died again.
     
  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,561
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Should be easy to check ... Chrage it up ..start and connect voltmeter to battery while running .. should be over 14 volts .. If not alternator may be gone

    If it is charging fine .. let us know

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
     
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  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,535
    Vegas baby
    If the battery is shot and the voltage drops to like 11.5 volts the electronics have a kind of fail safe to protect the system and emissions. IMO, the battery is where you should start and replace it after having it checked.
     
  4. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,561
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Although I agree . If it starts but shuts down while running would you agree the alternator is more likely the issue .. much cheaper to replace battery but I feel the car should stay alive even if a weak battery

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
     
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  5. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,535
    Vegas baby
    Not necessarily. Tthe battery could be drawing too much current or creating too much resistance to keep it alive. The only good thing is the battery, aside from being in a PITA place, is the easiest thing to check and the cheapest thing to replace. So, before panicking, its the first place to look and probably the most likely thing that's wrong.

    After that, its anyone's guess from the Alt or relays or some intermittent electrical connection. It might even be the start button. I believe someone here had a defective start button replaced once when trying to solve an electrical problem.
     
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  6. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,561
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    #6 flash32, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
    You know after re- reading the first post .. I totally agree with you now .. I jumped to a conclusion without reading the message throughly .. if car ran correctly before the battery died the first time .. it probably it is the battery or of course somehow the alternator went during the charge or when battery was weak....

    I still think if do a simple test of voltage while it is running it will give a better picture

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
     
    one4torque likes this.
  7. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 2, 2010
    1,942
    San Diego CA
    Full Name:
    Fernando
    I will bet on the Alternator. same thing happened to my TR, when you are driving do the windows go slow before dying??


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. 911&F430

    911&F430 Karting

    Oct 14, 2014
    131
    Atlanta
    The windows and rest of the car worked fine. It just turned off without warning when idling.
     
  9. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,624
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Dont jump these cars! The electronics are very fragile.

    Hopefully this time you got away with it - it sounds like a dead battery.
     
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  10. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    16,601
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Sound like the alternator.

    But I’m a bad diagnostician.

    Matt
     
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  11. Bob in Texas

    Bob in Texas F1 Rookie

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,665
    Just East of Weird
    Full Name:
    Bob
    What Mr Stewart says...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  12. 911&F430

    911&F430 Karting

    Oct 14, 2014
    131
    Atlanta
    Ferrari mechanics jump them with portable jump starters. Don't think they jump them using another car though, but not 100% on that one.
     
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  13. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,860
    And when you replace the alternator/ battery/ both? Replace the OE tender, its not that good! Suggest CTek 7002.
     
  14. JaguarDriver

    JaguarDriver Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 27, 2011
    174
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Dick Maury
    I have seen some strange things happen when the battery goes bad. Sometimes the battery will allow enough current to start the car but the car will not run correctly. The electronics on the car run on DC current. The alternator puts out AC current. There are rectifiers in the alternator that cut off the negative pulses so that only positive current is passed through. However, this is not constant DC but pulsed DC current. The electronics cannot run on this which is where the battery comes into play. It stabilizes the current supplied to a constant DC current. Best thing to do is check the charging voltage if you can get the engine running. If OK, load test the battery and see if it is any good.
     
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  15. sakodik

    sakodik Karting

    Jun 2, 2016
    169
    Santa Clara
    Full Name:
    Dan
    Sounds like a battery is dead. Mine died when it was not properly cared for within 2 months.

    Like you, I jumped and ran idle for 10mins before it died. Same cst and various warning lights, and I was unable to shift out of N. After the second jump attempt the, the engine had a rough idle and I shut down and changed battery on the street. Fixed all issues and back on the road as normal. Hopefully for you it's as simple as battery change.
     
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  16. 911&F430

    911&F430 Karting

    Oct 14, 2014
    131
    Atlanta
    I wonder if the OE trickle charger would charge it more quickly if the battery master switch was disconnected, thereby eliminating any draw on the battery from car systems.
     
  17. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 20, 2018
    5,088
    Houston
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    One4torque
    Volt meter is your friend.
    Don’t just replace everything noted in this thread before some simple diagnosis.
     
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  18. Buzios

    Buzios Karting

    Aug 5, 2018
    56
    From a fairly new owner and FChat member, it seems pretty clear to me that ~50% of the situations lead to some of version of “just replace the battery and check if the problem goes away.” I’d always try that first as it’s an easy job and it’s a $150 cost on an $100k+ car (where just about everything else costs more anyway)...
     
  19. howl

    howl Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2011
    505
    Chicago/Boca
    Full Name:
    Tom
    This is really interesting. I never knew this. I think it also explains why cars can get funky after a week of sitting and not being on the tender. Thanks for the post.
     
  20. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2005
    1,728
    Canada, Florida
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    Fred
    If you own one of these cars it is a MUST to have this tool.
    This is more than a simple Voltmeter

    (NAME) Digital 12V Car Battery Tester Automotive Battery Load Tester and Analyzer of Battery Life Percentage,Voltage, Resistance and CCA Value for Flood, Gel, AGM, Deep Cycle Bat

    They can be obtained at Amazon (no affiliation) from $50 +
    One such example does this:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 20, 2018
    5,088
    Houston
    Full Name:
    One4torque
    A few items related to car battery, and charging system diagnosis.

    1. Check voltage of battery. If below 12 volts, try to charge the battery with a battery charger.
    IF battery will take a charge, then attempt to start car.

    NOTE - a battery can take a charge, and show 12.5 volts or higher... YET still be defective and not have enough cca to start the car.

    2. After start car, check voltage again with car running. it should read 13+ volts..... (higher than not running and off charger).... indicating alternator and charge system working.

    NOTE - do not try to charge a dead battery while driving your car around. this can kill your good alternator. Better to use a battery charger for this.

    special to the 360.... and prob other F cars - you must have a fully charged good battery for the ecu (s) to work properly. If voltage is below target, these cars are very sensative, and will throw codes and do funny things.

    keep the battery on a tender.

    good luck.

    oh and be careful not to touch the neg terminanal to the pos terminal with your tools..... OR more commonly touch a wrench on the pos terminal on the body or frame..... very common...

    oh and a final freebie - be careful to not cross up the charger wires pos/neg from charger to battery... this happens more than you care to know.... shops do this, mech's do this... housewives do this......

    gl and drive on :)
     
  22. 911&F430

    911&F430 Karting

    Oct 14, 2014
    131
    Atlanta
    So after talking to an electrical engineer friend who is also a car person our theory is is this: Because of the demand from all of the car's systems the alternator cannot power the systems AND try to recharge the battery at the low rpms when the car is idling. And so it shuts off.

    I disconnected the battery master switch so there would be no drain on the battery and have it hooked up to the OE trickle charger. If that gets it to charge enough to start I'll prob take it on a lap of I-285 which should give it a nice extended drive without the engine having to idle at stoplights, etc.

    If that doesn't work then I'll prob take the battery out and take it somewhere to be tested.
     
  23. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2005
    1,728
    Canada, Florida
    Full Name:
    Fred
    Bryan, I forgot to post this link.
    Check this out:
     
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  24. Kirpal Padawan

    Dec 25, 2018
    4
    Casadega
    Full Name:
    Kirpal P. Padawan
  25. Doctor Mark

    Doctor Mark Formula Junior

    Dec 15, 2005
    870
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Mark Gronsbell
    Batteries are cheap and once they go dead, they never fully recover. Be smart and remove battery and replace with a good new fully charged unit. At the minimum have your removed current battery load tested at the local parts store. Best advice stop jump starting and buy a new battery. Then check alternator output.
    KISS principle.
     
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