How Do Prices of TDF and 812 Make Sense?

Congratulations on your new TDF, and welcome to “the club”! Do I take it from your post that you have had the opportunity to track it now? I hope so - they are remarkable cars with SO much capacity to give more and more, depending wholly on your “risk appetite” for pushing it.

I agree, you can definitely feel the weight of the 812 in the turns compared to the TDF - they are different, but each is amazing in its own right


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Ferrari controls the market so well.


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Listen to what this Tdf owner (and previous F12 owner) says WHILE he's driving an 812... Starting at about 1:20:

 

An interesting question is that many well respected journalists such as Bovingdon, Harris etc. did not get on with the TDF and it is certainly true that that car was Ferrari’s first go at rws. You could say they are ‘soft’ but Bovingdon absolutely raved at the Speciale and both (plus virtually every other journo) were smitten by the ultra raw F40. So, although I have never driven a TDF it seems there is something to their comments.

Here is my question; What makes a TDF attract criticism for what the in the F40 draws praise (I.e. that you have to be a good driver to master them)?

For reference I have an 812 coming, never really loved the F12 but would have had a TDF in a heartbeat, if I could, for the sound, looks, and that video of Kimi blowing vertical tyre smoke through the rear arch vents. Truth be told this last point alone was enough....! (Actually I’m not joking about that, which just proves to me that logic is irrelevant in buying these cars.)

 

I own both the Speciale and Tdf. I've driven both in a variety of conditions. What I can tell you is that the Speciale is so easy to drive... No matter what you do outside of complete lunacy, the car rewards and makes you look/feel like a hero. The Tdf, on the other hand, has such insane capabilities that it absolutely requires respect, otherwise it will hurt you. Two entirely different drive dynamics.

 

My question was really about the F40 - why is that car lauded for being analogue and harder to drive whereas the TDF is criticised for being difficult to drive by the same journalists?

 

Harris didn’t get on with the TDF???

Are we watching the same reviews? He was gobsmacked by it, and was in awe of the entire package.



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My largest pet peeve with Ferrari owners is their arrogance when explaining a difference between two cars to someone (with no experience with them) is asking.
Not every one is able to drive or own or even test these cars, good luck finding a TdF available for a test drive.........

 

harris practically released bodily fluids when he drove the tdf. and same for the f40.

i own both cars. the tdf is is a current example of what the modern and near modern era of cranking hp out of a NA v12 represents, and then it can brake, handle, and be driven on a daily basis if need be.

the F40 is automotive nirvana, it represents what cld be accomplished 30 years ago if you went outside the box. to say it has aged gracefully wld be an understatement and if it debuted today we wld all still be jaw dropped. It is the opposite of the tdf - it has zero technology. Owning an f40, CS, and TDF is in my opinion an amazing trifecta.

if the question is how can an f40 be good if the TDF gets praise it's an unfounded question. They are both exhilarating - they just get you there via different routes.

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and fwiw the TDF is nowhere near a CGT in terms of white knuckles. You dont know white knuckles until you have driven a CGT with the first set of oem tires.

 

Reading this thread is making me want to take my buddy up on his offer to drive his TDF.

 

What a truly gorgeous pairing. Thank you for sharing your insight, and especially thank you for sharing the lovely photos!

 

What’s stopping you??? Get over to his place RIGHT NOW!!


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GameMaker. If you’re too busy, I’d be honored to fill in for you.

 

Yes, apologies, you’re right. There are many petrolhead journalists though who felt it is a car that was not quite right, yet they all loved the F40 - I chose a bad example in Harris but the point is still relevant. Even Harris seemed to question its sanity on his original fiorano drive of the car. He is the sort of journalist who loves that but in his written piece about the 812 he suggests Ferrari acknowledges the TDF was a step too far for the road.

 

Thank you, you answered my question before I even asked...


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The real question is 599 GTO or F12 TDF ???

 

Hugely subjective reply, but, “TDF. Absolutely, TDF.”

I had absolutely no desire to own a 599.

I was absolutely smitten by the TDF from the day it was announced.

But that is just one man’s very personal opinion . I’m sure many would go the other way.


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The 599 GTB is great but I have the feeling there is more improvement from the F12 (which is already better) to the TdF that from the 599 GTB to the 599 GTO.
So definitely TdF for me (hypothetically of course).

 

Having driven both, I'll second this...

The biggest difference is the gearbox, not surprisingly. The explosive nature of gear changes in the Tdf is just night and day difference. But 599 GTO also just feels bigger. Brakes take longer to prime and are weak when cold. Creature comforts also weaker in GTO, especially A/C system. The thing I like most about the GTO, however, is the deeper sounding growl, which is more Enzo-like. Not better than the Tdf, but different and noticeably deeper/lower frequency. Both awesome cars nonetheless, but still a no-brainer toward Tdf, even considering price difference.

 

The price of the TDF makes sense because the car is an exclusive Ferrari with a limited series of 799 built. It also makes sense due to the fact that there are very few GT road cars that can outperform the TDF and the ones that can do it are even more exclusive and expensive.
On the other hand the price of the 812 doesn't make sense and IMO the car is underpriced. The 812 is something unique because in the GT non exclusive production road segment the competition has nothing that is comparable. A road GT that on paper shows a performance similar to the TDF, has a more powerful engine, all that at a price new that is almost three times less of the TDFs second hand requesting prices, can only be considered a bargain.

 

I totaly agree.
812 is underpriced!

But again, there aren’t many for this market segment.

Customers in for big v12 fr GT.

And the thing is 812 is sport than GT.

So people thinks they buy 812 expecting something special with GT nature of Bentley v12 GT or AM v12 GT.

And a few months later, they are for sale because it is lacking luxury and comfort than its cheaper rival.

It has too busy steering for GT, ride is too firm compared to rivals, lacks comfort and feels cheap inside than super luxury GTs.

So depriciation wise, one has to commit when purchasing 812 new since he or she will lose half of the price in less than 3 years.

And this is why Ferrari can not tag a higher price in my opinion. Thank god for this.



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I’d call the aventador a big gt

 

You're right. But even Ferrari calls the 812 an extreme sports car. I haven't driven an F12tdf (yet!!! ) But I really loved the 812 I drove. The Lusso and Portofino are there for those who want a Ferrari GT. The Lusso is perfect as far as I am concerned