Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2

Anyone have any experience of these tyres for their 430 or 360 on the road (not track)?

I use my gated 430 for fast road use, rarely or never in the wet. Wondering why I don't just get a set of semi slicks like this. I don't mind about wear, and the ride isn't a big issue. Any disadvantages over the usual broad use tyres?

 

The tire is not safe in temps near or below freezing. Not sure if that will be an issue for you.

 

They lose grip below 40F. If for nice days when you can get heat in them, they’re great. Standard issue for cars like Porsche GT3 and 458 Speciale. The only reason I’ve not used them for 360 is that they don’t come in OEM 18” sizes. If you can get alternative sizes to fir properly without throwing off ASR, they would be good for your described use.


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I have Pilot Sport Cup 2 on my 360 with 19" OZ ultraleggera HLT and I really love it ! It is my second set. On the road, on the track (French F1 track), I have never feel such a grip before (ASR is consequently never active by the ECU). Even with a little snow falls, I have had no problem (but I drove safely). But above all I have been impressed by its endurance on track.
The only tire clearly above is the Pirelli Trofeo R but it is more expensive and dangerous on the rain. Not the case of the Michelin.
Try it for the price ;-)
Front 235/35/19
Rear 285/35/19
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I don't have experience with the Cup 2s, but I'm running Trofeo Rs on my scud and love them. They made a big difference over the Corsas. As a bonus, they're Italian. They are gripper than the Cup 2s. See this link.



I understand the new Cup 2Rs are closer to the Trofeo Rs.

 

Thank you everyone. It has dawned on me that I have 18 inch wheels and therefore the Cups are not applicable.

I only drive the gated 430 spider in the summer, and try and avoid the rain as much as you can in the UK. I do 3000 miles a year in this particular car, tops. Are the Trofeos or any other similar tyre available in this size? I don't track the car, and on the limit grip is not really the issue, but for fast road use with plenty of sharpness and feel. Don't mind about wear rate.

 

Anyone on here w 2Rs on their Scud/16M?

Wear rate seems like a moot topic for most of us, since most of us will hardly ever break 5-10k miles a year, so going for the softer, grippier R compounds makes the most enjoyable sense to me...and by the time you get close to the mileage limit, it would’ve most likely already been a few years and the rubber needs to be replaced anyways.

 

I have Cup 2’s on my Speciale and 4S’s on my 16M. It’s been raining a lot in SoCal and the Cup 2’s are slippery. I’ve taken the 16M through the canyons and they slip a little on hard turns but still very controllable. Speciale with Cup 2’s through same canyons in the dry I could not break loose.
I prefer the 4S for all around all season driving.
Of note, my buddy’s Pista came with Cup 2’s.
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The new Sports Cup 2 R is very limited in sizes. 2 sizes only here in America. Also extremely expensive.

A good option is the new Goodyear 3R. This is currently favorite of r-comp for track day crowd. Grip a tiny better than Sports Cup. Available in May be 10 sizes.

Note Sports Cup 2 are not consistent in grip across different sizes / models. They even have 2 different compounds for same size tires. Manufacturer spec it out to their liking. And some are pretty sticky, some are not.

 

Interesting as to the sizes available for the Cup 2Rs. I spoke to a Michellin tech at Laguna during car week and he confirmed that the Trofeos are grippier than the standard Cup 2s. He's the one who indicated to me that the Cup 2Rs are closer to the Trofeos.

I agree that wear rate isn't the issue. Personally, I want the stickiest street tire I can have, even if I don't go to the track. Nice to know you won't careen down the hill when you're driving quickly in the canyons. It's a safety issue as well as a performance issue for me.

 

I run Michelin cup 2 on my scuderia. It’s a less than 3-4K miles a year car so it works out. Plus Southern California (minus these past few weeks) under 40 degrees Fahrenheit isn’t something to calculate for on tire performance and safer. I love the all out performance and it eliminated a lot of the 1st / 2nd gear pull tire spin I experienced on basic pilot sports. On my oem wheels, I run Bridgestone RE71R which heat up quick and perform amazing.

 

RE71Rs are really good tires. I have them on my 308. Less expensive than Cup 2s and Trofeos.

 

Pirelli is a Chinese owned company(ChemChina) and would not put their tires on my F430. The Chinese have a very different attitude towards quality.

 

Thanks everyone. Looking at this, I'm now debating between RE71Rs and PS4Ss for my 430. I only use the car in summer, and a few thousand of miles a year. Unfortunately Cup 2s not available in 18 inch. It sounds like for my use Re71Rs would be better than PS4S? If I'm caught in a rainstorm I don't mind taking it easy, but are the Bridgestones more fun than PS4s in the dry?

 

Half of the stuff in your home today and vast majority of the electronic components come from China. The problem isn't actually Chinese, they will sell to all budgets and to meet those budgets corners will sometimes be cut, it's down to the companies who demand parts. I've worked a lot with Chinese, India, European companies etc and you really need to take the lead on quality and make it part of your acceptance criteria.


In this case Manufacturers and governments do on tires so I wouldn't worry about using Pirelli on a Ferrari, they are OEM approved. Having said that I prefer Michelin myself Vs Pirelli.

 

A rather sweeping and inaccurate generalisation. Apple build all their products in China for just one example. In my fairly strong experience with many different Chinese manufacturers, they build exactly what is specified by the customer in terms of cost and quality. They are also current world leaders in manufacturing and material process engineering methods.

 

Just correcting myself, 430 wheels are 19s of course, but the Cup 2 does not come in the right size nevertheless.

 

RE71R is FAR grippier than PS4S in the dry. not even classed in the same category.......

you can get Cup 2s in Scud size (front is 10mm wider), and they fit F430 wheels just fine. I wouldn't say regular Cup 2 is any grippier than RE71R (there are exceptions in some sizes).

careful when you say you want stickiest "street" tires. Hoosier A7 is another level above Cup2-R / Trofeos...... I know of people drive them on street, but this is 100% summer dry tire only. do not come within inches of water.

 

want to add: Hoosier is a DOT tire..... R7 is available in 235/35 and 295/35 for 430....
as crazy as Hoosier are, Hankook Ventus TD is the ultimate dry tire.... but even more extreme and limited in sizes. this is the what Time Attack Unlimited class people run.

 

Thank you, really helpful information here. If I go for the wider (235) diameter tires on the front wheels, Any suggestions for changes to camber or toe in?

 

Useful to look at the post by Aldous Voice and the chart prepared by 360trev. The alignment specs require a full fuel tank and 70kg static weight in the car. Beyond that, unless you do mostly straight line highway driving, go to 430 or Challenge Stradale alignment specs.

If you want to be most conservative from factory, use all of the 360 factory settings except rear toe set at 0.25 degrees toe-in per corner, to increase rear end stability. This is the main reason 360s are more twitchy than 430s, as the suspensions are basically the same.

https://aldousvoice.com/2012/11/24/ferrari-360-suspension-geometry/

 

there is no magic alignment numbers that's good for everyone. manufacturer do not know if you live in the mountain (more camber) or drive interstate only (less camber). they do not know if you like autocrossing (more front toe out) or long sweeping highway (zero toe front or even slight toe in - I want to add there is a different school of thought on front toe). they do not know if are running on crappy tires (car will be looser, and need less camber) or on R-comp tires (car will be tighter and need more camber). if you corner hard (more camber) or leisurely weekend drive (less camber). if you like heavier steering (more caster, which also give you more camber when wheels are turned) or lighter steering (less caster). they don't know if you like a car loose (more camber in front vs. rear) or like a car tight (more camber in rear vs. front).

as for rear toe. you always want a little bit of toe in, to help with braking. if your car (rear) moves around during heavy braking, you need more rear toe in. and vice versa. more rear toe out ("more" as in relative) also helps a car rotate, and vice versa.

you can also adjust behavior oversteer/understeer by raking a car. more rake (rear sitting higher) means more understeer, and vice versa.

one of best thing to do is find a shop that can do corner balancing. that's another topic though. but you need adjustable end link and adjustable ride height.... not sure if all 360/430 model have them.

 

Ride height is adjustable on all late model Ferraris, including the 360 and F430, by adjusting the spring perch ring nut and then realigning the suspension (camber and toe). Should not be adjusted too much with stock springs, however. Front toe-out is great for turn in but makes it harder to drive in a straight line as the front end hunts.

 

Realistically I am not going to drive the 430 on its limits very much on the road. Most driving will be at seven or eight tenths at most. So here's another question. Is there any advantage to having Cup 2/R/RE71 for spirited but not on the limit road driving? Compared to PS4S (which is different to PS4). Will they have much better feel?

 

Darius- If you want to feel every rock, repair, and ridge in the road, yes they have better feel.