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Help solving this puzzle

Discussion in '612/599' started by smggms, Mar 8, 2019.

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  1. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    #1 smggms, Mar 8, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
    in process of buying this car

    ferrari 612 2005 . not sure what happen . TIMING BELT BROKE

    Major service done at FERRARI OF FORT LAUDERDALE


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    january 2018 the TIMING BELT BROKE .. and damaged the valves..
    my question is could that happen AGAIN?
    is it becasue of bad job or bad part? is that common on 612?

    here the service records labor and parts done at same dealer again..
    the car had 800 mile since the second service one year ago..




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  2. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    i just noticed that last year service , ONE TIMING BELT only ..
    is that A typo? i cant imagin the teared down the engine to replace one belt!!!



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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,952
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Service schedule calls for replacing the cam belts every 5 years. If the earlier owners never did that, a broken belt could be the result. Or someone dropped a tool into the engine bay and it fouled the belt, or there was an oil leak from that side cam and it fouled the belt, which then broke or skipped some teeth.

    Very rare on the F133 series of engines (550, 575, 612) after the Kevlar belts came out in early 2002.
     
  4. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    the first belt replaced january 2014 as u can see from the invoices mileage 6345
    the belt broke replace january 2018 .. same dealer ship mileage 6758

    thats less tan 5 years .. just 400 mile ..
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,952
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Matt- Not a Ferrari I would want to own. Replacing just one belt is ridiculous.
     
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  6. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    yeh i agree ,, i dont understand taking engine apart over 6k labour to change only one belt ..
    the can need timing belt change before driving it ..
     
  7. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    called the florida dealer,, they said the power steering belt broke not the timiing belt .. ( as u can see where the customer stated make sense since visualy u cannsee it) u cant see the timing belt.. not sure what damaged the valves?

    taz
    if the seller agreed to replace the timing belts, is it safe to buy it?
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,952
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Not for me. Still do not know what caused the cambelt to break in the first place, the only reason I can think of to replace valves. Plus breaking an aux belt is not common if she is regularly serviced. Too many good 612s out there to buy one with a questionable engine when the F133 engines tend to be very reliable if well cared for.
     
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  9. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,329
    I would say it comes down to the price and the condition of everything else - a weathered and worn out interior is far more difficult to restore than an engine.

    If the price is right, then getting the work done yourself has the added benefit of you knowing exactly what was done.

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  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,952
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    I suppose some amateur could have bent valves by not making sure everything was lined up before torqueing down the cams, but why you would remove the cams on a low mileage F133 is beyond me.

    Your call, you are buying her, not me.
     
  11. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    its well cared for lot of service .. but the belt broke for unknown reason, after 4 yeasrs 500 mile from the major service..
    there is no notes from the tech that the timing belt broke .. the notes say the aux belt broke..
    and that shoud not damage the the valves..

    so with new fresh service will be perform by another dealer and if ask the to do new compresion test ( one done last year after they replaced the valves)
    still u think will be trouble for the future..
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
    37,952
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    Terry H Phillips
    So why did they replace 24 valves on 13 January?
     
  13. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    #13 smggms, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    itererior look good no shrinkage or sticky .. clutch 34% worn 7k miles
    what fair prices u think ?
     
  14. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    They were damaged , per tech note
    ***see first post ,,** look like he changed the belt test drive it then he mentioned that the car had miss fire and compression test failed ,, That when he start taking engine a part and noticed valve damaged ,, no mention any were timing belt broke ,,

    That my concern too what cause the aux belt to broke and how did valves damaged,, maybe the timing belt took hit because of aux belt,,


    My question, if new major service will be done again
    And new compression leakdown test ..
    Will it help ?


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  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    No comment.
     
  16. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,332
    Weston, MA
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    Paul
    If I had to guess, I'd say the timing belt was not changed the first time, the owner was just billed for it. Either that the belt was replaced by a cheap counterfeit part.
     
  17. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    will make sense if it was not the dealer.. but the car regulary serviced by Ferrari FT FT LAUDERDALE ..
     
  18. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
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    Paul
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    Unfortunately, that is no guarantee. I am the second owner of a 612 OTO. The first owner had the timing belt service completed just before I purchased the car. I had an expert Ferrari technician review the work. He found 3 things which were done improperly. The attached photo shows what happened when the Ferrari dealer tech put the pulley on the wrong way. The pulley was scoring the timing belt cover. This could have potentially ended up in failure. Another omission could have had serious consequences since several critical bolts were never replaced (I happened to find one just sitting in the engine bay).

    Here's the problem with some dealers. They pay their techs by the job, not by an hourly wage or salary. Consequently, if the tech can squeeze in 3 jobs in a day rather than 2, he makes more money. The problem with rushing a job is ...... well I think you can guess. I have told my experience to others and found that mine was not an isolated incident.
     
  19. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
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    Matt Godwin
    #19 smggms, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    wow.. thats explain alot.. thank you for sharing..

    so may be just what im thinking could be bad job by this delaership..
    theirtechs incomptent .. or bad policy .. last year they redid major service again to change one timig belt .. diffrent tech ... t
     
  20. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,332
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    Paul
    Sure you're welcome. Just to describe what you are seeing. The center of the pulley has a flange that protrudes from the pulley. The other side of the pulley that you can't see is flush with the pulley wheel. The pulley is supposed to be mounted with the flush side closest to the engine block. The tech mounted the pulley with the flange side facing the engine block. Consequently the pulley was sticking out and rubbing into the timing belt cover.
     
  21. m5shiv

    m5shiv Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2013
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    Shiv
    Don't buy this car. Walk the hell away.
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
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    Terry H Phillips
    Many of Ferrari's younger technicians are not that familiar with "older" Ferraris that have belt driven camshafts. So if the service manager sticks a new tech with a job instead of the old pro who knows what he is doing, no telling the outcome. At least that is how it now works according to some of FChat's pros.
     
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  23. smggms

    smggms Formula Junior

    Apr 29, 2018
    252
    Full Name:
    Matt Godwin
    Terry
    I agree this the only logic explanation,, bad job timing off valve damaged ..


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