Airbus pulls the plug on the A380: production to end in 2021 | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Airbus pulls the plug on the A380: production to end in 2021

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by nerofer, Feb 14, 2019.

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  1. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    That's not exactly true, Jim. The problem with in-flight refueling from the A-400M concerns only the helicopters. The A-400M is already qualified to refuel the F-18 since december 2017, the "Rafale" since June 8th, 2018, and a qualification campaign with the "Mirage 2000" has started this January. The trouble the A-400M has with the helicopters seems to be, according to Airbus, coming form the shape of the refueling pods under the wing; a new helicopter qualification campaign is scheduled for 2020-2021.

    As for France - because Germany decided to buy C-130Js also - the decision to buy four C-130Js, actually two C130Js and two KC-130Js, was taken, rather quickly for once, in 2015.
    It came mainly from the exhaustion of the old C-160"Transall" in supporting operations in Africa. During the 2000's it was not originally scheduled that France would still be engaged in Africa during the 2010 (mainly in Chad nowadays) so the rapid obsolescence of the c-160 "Transall" fleet was not seen as a problem. However, as these african operations were still progressing, a medium transport aircraft capacity was necessary because it doesn't always make sense to use the large capacity A-400M (it is also employed here, but less). The C-160s are really on their last legs, and the 14 C-130s bought in 1987 are simply too few in numbers to be all diverted there, so the buy of an additional four C-130 made sense.
    Initially, the Armée de l'Air studied different proposal for second-hand aircraft more compatible with the C-130H standard of those already in hand (either C-130E to be converted to the same standard, or C-130H) but decided to go for four brand new C-130J instead. When the trouble of the A-400M in refuelling helicopters became obvious, two of the four were specified as KC-130Js instead.

    Rgds
     
  2. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Jim Pernikoff
    It was my understanding that the French C-130J order did not come until after the A400's difficulty in refueling helicopters had been determined, and it came well before the German order, which may not have happened if not for the decision to cooperate with France on joint operation of the aircraft. At least that's what we were told at Lockheed Martin while I was still working for them.
     
  3. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Well, what I can tell you with certainty is that, when the need for a medium tactical plane to replace the few and very tired C-160 left became dire, the original plan was to buy four second-hand C-130, and that initially this was discussed with Israeli C-130E in mind, to be brought up to C-130H standard, this to have the french C-130 fleet, the 14 from the 1987 order, and these four, to the same standard.
    The decision to buy four new C-130J came later. But, for once, the procurement process was rather quick.
    Rgds
     
  4. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
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    I think you are CORRECT! Airbus did a study to convert the A380 to a cargo plane and it was too expensive so they never did it. Boeing had already sewed up that market as well.
     
  5. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Still building 747-8F freighters even though they aren't really selling any PAX planes, except the AF-1 planes, I think...

    The 747 was designed from the beginning as at least a potential freighter, with the raised control deck. A-380 was not.
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    The Air Force One 747s are being converted from 747-8s (forget whether they were freighters or not) that Boeing had already built and had orders cancelled. USAF got a good deal on them and saved about $1B. Turns out Boeing would have sold them later at any rate, plus the new orders
     
  7. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    It's the -8i. N895BA and N894BA.

    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N895BA
    https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N894BA

    Both photo'd together here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125532120@N06/44776796950/
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Big differences between those two and the United 747 behind them. Engines are much larger, upper deck is longer, etc.
     
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  9. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    AF1 are airliners, not cargo. It was a defunct Russian airline that never took delivery. Conversion will be done in San Antonio under a Boeing contract with work being performed by GDC.
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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  11. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Wake turbulence is worse the larger an aircraft gets, who would have thought that?
     
  13. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    When dirty, the B-29 was the worst guy on the block. I got tangled up in one once in 1947. I was slapped around by the Boeing 247 while leaving Abottsford, Canada. airshow. The 747 was bad, too. I can't imagine what the A380 was like. It takes a while for all that working air to quiet down.
     
  14. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    True, but there are other factors at play such as wing design. The 757 was classified as a heavy with respect to wake turbulence.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    T-38s have been known to do uncommanded aileron rolls behind a C-5 in just the wrong place. Can be pretty scary.
     
  16. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
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    The A380 was destined to fail. Boeing always knew the market wasn't that big. Remember that Boeing floated a number of 747 derivatives when Airbust was trying to launch the A380. While not quite as capable as the 380 these versions were priced much much lower than the 380. This effort wasn't all that serious, but it did force Airbus to cut the price of the 380 to get a luanch, making it unprofitable from the start, and with low demand and the need to feed the line, they never could raise the price and make a profit on it. Then once Airbus was tied up with the 380, Boeing launched the 787... They basically pulled the fighter maneuver of turning inside of their opponent. This insured the 787 would get to market before Airbus could respond... Brilliant.
     
  17. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  18. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

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    Talking about the A380, I've read somewhere that one company from the Middle East has already retired one. Is it true?
     
  19. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There are currently 4 aircraft stored (3 from Singapore Airilnes), which at this point means retired.
     
  20. Bendrover

    Bendrover Karting

    Dec 18, 2005
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    Just a tangent, but I flew Emirates A380 for the first time the last two weeks for a family vacation. Coming from a guy that doesn't like to fly, I can tell you I thought it was an amazing plane. Truly felt like a gentle giant. To bad it hasn't been a success, but I would fly on it anytime.
     
  21. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

    Jul 18, 2014
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    new vid (mostly it's history in the market)

    " ..... but the A380 has been making a comeback with several airlines pulling planes out of retirement."
    Not surprising. I'm sure they want to recoup some costs if possible.



    .
     
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  22. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    I am surprised that you must have missed the PR barrage from Global Airlines and their dream of being an airline with A380s. Do not have much faith in them.
     
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  23. BJK

    BJK F1 Rookie

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    #48 BJK, Feb 15, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2024
  24. cairns

    cairns Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2003
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    I'll be sad to see it go. I've flown in Emirates first a few times and those were some of the most luxurious experiences I've ever had. That said the 747 is still the queen in my eyes. God knows how many times I've been on it (from the initial 100s to the 400s- never flown on an 8) and I've been thankful every time.
     
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  25. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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