We need Ferrari to develop and work as hard as Mercedes. This was interesting to me...... The real story behind Mercedes' turnaround -- https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/8951/the-real-story-behind-mercedes-turnaround There was talk that Mercedes was in 'crisis' during pre-season testing, as its initial car lacked pace and its drivers expressed concerns. While those fears proved wide of the mark, the negatives became the foundation of its Melbourne fightback Mercedes boss Toto Wolff has always lived off the mantra that the day his rivals should fear the most, are those when his team has suffered pain. Last year, for example, he famously used Mercedes' defeat at the Belgian Grand Prix as a focal point for his team to dig deeper and push towards what would be its fifth straight championship double. It appears we've had a similar trigger point at the start of 2019 too. Mercedes was able to recover from a difficult first test - dramatically labelled by some as a 'crisis' - to unleash a vastly improved car for the second test that it was able to tune and turn into a surprise winner in Australia. The narrative is not quite that simple, though. In a year in which there has been a fair bit of pre-season bluffing, how events were playing out in public was very different from how Mercedes perceived things itself. Don't imagine for a moment that the vastly upgraded Mercedes that appeared at the second test was in any way a response to what had happened in the first week. There is no way an F1 team would be able to realise the trouble it was in, get the designers hard at work in coming up with new parts, windtunnel test them, manufacture them and then fly them out ready to run in a matter of days. F1 may be a world that lives on the cutting edge of technology, but things are not able to roll out that quickly. The kind of revamp that Mercedes unleashed at the second test is something that takes weeks, if not months, to come up with. Instead, it was a deliberate parallel project of a 'launch' spec for week one and a totally different 'race one' spec to follow. Mercedes pushed the button in November on a basic launch-spec car that it could build, prepare and know would be ready for the first test. Downforce improvements were being found hand-over-fist over the winter, and designers were focused on coming up with the revamped package that would appear at the second test. This project would have had nearly two more months of windtunnel time for performance improvements, so it was always going to be much better than the launch spec. Of course, the outside world - and especially rival teams - had no clue this plan was in place when the W10 first hit the track at Barcelona. In fact, Mercedes was clever in hinting that its basic 'launch-spec' car could hold some secrets, as it teased camouflage images in the week before it was unveiled to suggest it needed to keep things hidden. The Mercedes car certainly didn't look quick in the first week of testing, with its drivers talking about handling problems and it lacking balance. This was in contrast to Ferrari, which appeared to have bolted out of the blocks. Mercedes' struggles were seized upon as a sign that it had perhaps not got things right. This feeling was further amplified by the fact that it had adopted a different front wing philosophy to Ferrari. From the viewpoint that the testing-spec car was not its real 2019 challenger, we now have to view it as false that Mercedes was in real trouble in week one. The updated version of the W10 - which it has since emerged involved changes to every single aerodynamic surface of the car - was what we ideally would have judged Mercedes' pre-season capabilities on. But that was made even more difficult by Mercedes sticking to a rigid high-fuel, baseline set-up testing programme in the early running of its new-spec car. The team needed to do that because of the varied aero philosophies that had appeared - and to be sure that the week one woe was simply down to the launch-spec aero rather than inherent car issues. It was only on the last day of running that Mercedes finally took some fuel out to see what its car could really do - and it largely matched Ferrari's speed. Against the backdrop of the difficult first test, though, that late strong pace was not enough to change perceptions that Mercedes was on the back foot - with even the team admitting it was unsure where it stood. As Wolff said: "When we saw the various aerodynamic concepts hit the road in Barcelona, and us not having the pace, we just gave it all and tried to understand and not be too distracted by other people's lap time. "I think I must give all due credit to Loic [Serra] and his team, and Andrew Shovlin's team, that we continued to follow our programme during the tests. And back-to-back testing - baseline, a new component, baseline, set-up change, baseline, set-up change. And finally, towards the end of the second test, things came together, and the drivers liked the car more." Perhaps one of the most significant impacts of Mercedes' winter was that it really did leave the team with some uncertainty. It genuinely wasn't totally sure its car was quick enough or had the right aero concept. But such negativity isn't actually a bad thing for any team. After all, Wolff knows that his biggest challenge after multiple world championships is stopping complacency stepping in. Some doubts about the job that had been done will have acted as a motivating force in getting the team to dig deeper and work harder to ensure it was getting the most from the W10 in Melbourne. In a final factory briefing to staff before the team left for Australia, Wolff was clear that everyone needed to knuckle down for a fight. "This year is not going to be about who comes out of the blocks the quickest," he told them. "This year will be about the fittest, the ones that adapt the best to these new tyres and to these new regulations. "It's 39 weeks until the end of the season. And whatever happens in Melbourne, whatever happens in Bahrain and China, is just the beginning of the season. "We have all it needs to do it again. There are challenges but we are not taking anything for granted, so let's rock and roll and kick it off." In the end, the negatives of testing were turned into positives for the start of the campaign. It was the sort of brilliant turnaround in which wars are won. Ahead of Melbourne, Wolff told German newspaper Sueddeutche Zeitung about how the lessons of the collapse of the Roman Empire had helped drive his management philosophy - with the team bringing in a military strategist to help offer advice on how not to fall into the complacency trap. Speaking about the reasons for the end of the Roman Empire, Wolff said: "There are a few theories - some say because the Romans were full and perished from their decadence. Or because new and annoying enemies stood at the borders. The migration of peoples. "Also, the Romans ran out of equal enemies. Then they became careless. Decadence and arrogance can be consequences. The Romans no longer prioritised. There was nothing more to conquer. And when there is nothing more to conquer, you fall into complacency, then empires disintegrate. "Also because the people deal with themselves, it develops internally into trench warfare. The fall of the Roman Empire is an example that we have intensively discussed." For now, Mercedes has avoided the decadence and arrogance that cost the Romans so badly. It knows it has a fight on its hands, it knows the enemies (Ferrari in particular) are regrouping. But in some ways, it has hit the start of 2019 even stronger thanks to those troubled first days with the W10.
"Is Ferrari too Italian to win in F1?" - Yes! From an individual of Italian/Sicilian and Spanish progeny and heritage.
I can agree with the recent posts above. Especially the point about F1 changes taking some time to materialize. Composites and aero changes don't happen over night. I think Ferrari overcompensated for the faster layout at Melbourne, took too much wing off, and lost the handling in the corners. If you look at the telemetry for the sectors, you will see that Ferrari was fast in the straights, faster than MB and RB, but slow in the corners. Whatever the half way mark is between Barcelona test and Melbourne wings, was the right setup to fight last week. But of course, you have to mold the new wing so they were stuck with not enough wing. I suppose the fronts are still adjustable to a degree, but it was probably still too shallow. Are spoon wings still legal? Let's see what happens.
No. Italian citizenship is based upon the Jus sanguinis principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis Binotto is "half Swiss"? He was born in Lausanne to Italian parents, as far as I know. This makes him a dual-national, so I guess the correct way is to say that he is a Swiss citizen with Italian origin, or a dual-citizen. Saying "half Swiss" seems a wrong term in my mind. Same thing with Elkann, although his grandfather was French.
I think that's what people criticize when the team performs well. That may have been an issue in the past, but Ferrari have moved with the times and recruit in a more globalized fashion these days. Ferrari are consistently a front-running team, consistently involved in title fights. Even when they don't win, they usually finish at the pointy end of the standings at the end of each season. Clearly, they're doing something right. It's also noteworthy that Ferrari have been in title fights with so many different rival teams through their history. Rivals need to hit their own golden eras in order to finally come out on top - and Ferrari is usually the team they have to concentrate on beating. I think "too Italian to win" is just a journalistic crutch when commentators run out of other things/controversies to talk about. All the best, Andrew.
It's the style of management that is "too Italian" IMO, and that has nothing to do with the talented people the Scuderia had/has in its ranks.
I never heard of this around here. At least not the "Italian" part being the reason. The biggest institutional gripes I have heard has more to do with pressure, expectations from the heritage. The history creates 'extra' pressures.
Having followed Ferrari from the early 1970's I think I understand what they are talking about when its said that Ferrari are too Italian. if you are of Italian decent - then I would ask that you look at complex CFD model and explain it in English and then in Italian, and see if the people you explained it to have the same understanding. Most likely not. Therein is the practical question / reason. however English is the language used by Ferrari in its F-1 operation for the most part... but it then uses Italian as well.... so its a bit of a mix. I think the traditional explanation is that Italians are emotional, and prone to highs and lows... which everyone experiences but it is especially exacerbated in Italy by all the press. when Mr. Ferrari would read the news papers every day he took the criticism hard from the press ... and lashed out at people who he felt did not know anything. Ferrari is an Italian treasure, and because it is so beloved its also under intense scrutiny and that causes lots of pain for the folks working there. for me the real issue stemmed from Montezemolo trying to make Ferrari all Italian vs. the international team it was under the Todt years. simply put no team can be all one nationality any more... the English have the corner on the market for Chassis development and Aero, Ferrari are great with engines and Germans do great things with electronics and brakes... etc. Saying that Ferrari is too Italian to win is wrong... they are too emotionally deficient at the moment, and don't have strong leadership to allow failure to occur and learn from it. the pressure is so high that not many can stand it. fundamentally Teams usually do well when there is one clear chief... be it Mr. Ferrari, Montezemolo or Jean Todt... the times when Ferrari have been run by "committee" have been a disaster. right now since Marchionne Ferrari have been run by committee and its not good.
Well the Romans’ didn’t struggle to govern half the free world at one time, and last time I checked, Rome was in Italy..... the Italian style of management works just fine, and bearing in mind Ferrari is a company full of diverse nationalities anyway, it doesn’t hold up that it’s their Italian style that causes them to be considered unable to compete. The FIA and their biased and politicised rules do a great job on nine teams on the grid, not just Ferrari. Whether we re an Italian team or not, we don’t do too badly given there are at least eight teams below us most of the time
Today's Italians don't come entirely from the Romans, and probably don't have much to do with them. Don't forget that, over centuries, Rome was invaded, defeated, occupied and colonised by the Wisigoths and the Lombards among others. Also, nobody said the Italians are considered unable to compete, far from it. It's the tendency to over-react when faced with difficulty or failure that is in question. Instead of analysing calmly the reason and learn from it , they are prone to look immediatly for scapegoats as a solution. It's down to being too emotional instead of applying practical logic.
I have never heard of any situations when an organization is too nationalistic, and thus preventing them to win anything. And i also will never believe any crap coming from Toto. That guy is a first class ******** ter about the performance of the Mercs.
Romans were a mixture of Trojan, Eprisian (Albanian) and Greek ( Macedon & Minoan) , along with numerous indigenous Italian tribes ( Latins ) that inter mixed over centuries before the city state of Rome was founded & became powerful. Alba Longa is where Romulus and Remus were from... who were Trojan. Julius Ceasar's family were from Alba Longa.... ( supposedly ).
I think another angle that’s never talked about is that Mercedes in addition to their imherant strengths may have a larger budget than Ferrari... Mercedes are a MUCH larger company than Ferrari with much more money.
True. Mercedes is not a "German" team... its an international team that uses English as its primary communication medium. I think the traditional problem for Ferrari has been the use of Italian as the language of their business... when it was in the 50-70's it was ok, as most of the technology and supplies were all sourced from one country - with few if any parts coming from outside the country where the team was based. Vandervell Bearings come to mind... but as F-1 moved to every greater international sport / entertainment... then more international people become involved. to work for Ferrari has been difficult if you were not fluent in Italian. I get it that its an Italian company located in Italy so speak Italian, but not all the best engineers & techs speak Italian or will make the change to live there. ( having been quite a few times I don't know why - I really like Maranello / Modena is a great area.) I was a guest of Mercedes a couple years ago at COTA.. and everyone speaks English - Toto to all the team. But Dr. Z was there - they spoke German, Lauda was around he and Toto spoke Austrian German... ( Toto is pretty impressive - English, French, Italian and Spanish as well as Russian ...) but the team functions in the language of F-1... Ferrari not so much. I cant think of any other teams - even Renault that use another language... there is some French there.... but all the communication is in English with copies in French.
"Strength and Honor" "Unleash Hell" SPQR All works for me. Yes there has been blending, rise, fall, all of that. But remember this: ALFA, Bugatti (only kinda French), FIAT, Lancia, Abarth. The L in ALFA stands for Lombarda. It's more a budget issue in the battle with MB right now. I think Binotto will bring the Swiss sense or precision to the leadership. The strength in Passion from the Italian realm is being squashed by the rigid regulations. Remember Alfa Corse wrestled the DTM from MB at least once in the 90s, and that came through hard work with the regs, resources, designs, and drivers. Check out Davide Cironi's interviews on YouTube, Drive Experience. Wonderful stuff!
I can think of plenty of military examples, but this isn't P&R. I am not really well versed in the ins and outs of the makeup or attitudes of racing teams, but I would think the more international your thinking, the better. The wider the engineering pool, the more likely you are to find innovation. Merc, among other car makers, at a corporate level is a truly worldwide manufacturer with a much larger set of resources, both monetary and people, than any of the other teams. D
I had an invite for some more Audi seat time at COTA yesterday, which I of course seized. Somehow I managed to have the fastest TTRS autocross lap for the group. There was a nice Brit exPat at my lunch table. Upon hearing the official announcement I said to him with a wink, "Evidently I'm not too Italian to win." He was an F1 fan and laughed, sadly his cute American lady friend missed the humour.
Very true. When an organisation or a company globalises, it extends the pool of talents to chose from.
But what has the global company of Mercedes to do with the Mercedes-AMG Petronas team? It is not like the head hunters of the racing team are strolling through the numerous international plants for the passenger cars or lorries to find suitable mechanics and engineer...Without having the insight about how they really recruit people I would guess that talented engineer apply for a job at Mercedes-AMG just as they do at Ferrari, most likely a great amount of engineer in Brackley are naturally British and a great amount of engineer at Ferrari are Italian. Just because Mercedes has plants in the US I doubt that a lot of American Engineer come over to Europe to join AMG rather than they would do with Ferrari... Unless you say that British engineer are generally better than Italian ones I do not see what the difference is? IF there is a difference between Mercedes and Ferrari I guess it is that Mercedes could outspend Ferrari if needed...
Exactly Pete, it’s money and politics that count in f1 these days, and Ferrari is outspent in both departments. As if the best engineers, offered a job with both ferrari and Mercedes, would say.... mmm, **** ferrari, I wanna be one of hundreds at Mercedes! Yeah right. Millions worldwide dream of working for and driving Ferrari’s, few would differentiate a job at Mercedes from a job in any mainstream boring car manufacturer. The other thing that makes me laugh is the insinuation that British engineers are the best in the world....... what a crock...... why have we no space programme, buy in jets from Boeing, where is our car industry?... the isolationist view is strong in some....
I love me some Ferrari, but during the Brawn/Byne/Todt days. They became too political and inefficient. That's what opened the door wide for a team like Red Bull then of course Mercedes. Speaking of efficiency, I can't imagine what an efficient team like Haas could do with Ferrari-level of staff and funding. Haas have under 240 employees, that's a quarter of the two big teams. Remarkable inefficiency to both those teams IMO. Haas has my vote for my bang for the staff and $$ spent, hands down. Ferrari could learn a bunch from them IMO
