Elephant Walk in Alaska

Huge chunk of the world supply of F-22As. Those takeoff rolls were really short. Must be fun, even with external tanks hung on her.

 

I counted 24 there...that's impressive. I think the F22 pilots based out of Hickman in Hawaii have the best job in the world...amazing location and plane.

 

Looks cool, but what is the purpose of having them all lined up on the runway like that? I can't help but think it looks like a perfect opportunity for an enemy to wipe out our F22 fleet. If I were in charge I would never have more than about 6 at any given airport.

 

Elmendorf is out in the middle of freakin nowhere. No one is going to be sneaking up on them.

Besides, start WW3 over a few fighters? Even Rocketman isn't that dumb.

 

I can see why not putting all your chickens in one basket is important, but they are pretty remote in location there and I'm sure they have the best tech to identify anything coming at them far in advance (including intelligence gathering) no matter what kind of stealth tech that intruder would have.

Also, the Lockheed A12 wasn't publicly known for 20 years (1982), but the Sr71s were. So maybe there is something cooler than the F22 already out there and we just won't know about it for a while. I hope so.

 

Scattering aircraft all over the place is a pain in the neck for maintenance and training and takes way more manpower than consolidated squadrons at one location. The elephant walk is used for two things: one is to get nuclear loaded aircraft off the ground before the ICBMs get there, two is to practice for a short notice deployment for an entire unit to where the action is.

 

I'm not seeing how expediency is enhanced with the elephant walk?

 

The elephant walk is a generation exercise to see if the aircraft and aircrews are ready if things go bad. So far we have not dropped nukes on anybody since WW-II and deployments are usually, but not always, planned.

I assume you have no military service.

 

Just sneaky earthquakes...

 

No, none.

It just looks more like an exhibition rather than a readiness drill to me. Which is fine. I'm not criticizing it and it's important for moral. I just look at it and think if there was a stolen King Air out of one of the nearby airports (Elmendorf is not remote, it's right next to Anchorage, AK) with a kamikaze terrorist on board he could wipe out half our fleet before we could scramble one of those jets. Maybe I'm wrong and there are already a couple F22's already launched and patrolling the skies to neutralize any threats. But a quick check on Foreflight reveals there are 3 or more airports within a 10 mile radius. Even if they were all shut down, a terrorist isn't goin to pay any mind and could get to Elmendorf in under a minute depending on which airport he departs from. Would we really be able to detect the threat and shoot it down in that time? I have my doubts.

If we were to launch a nuclear strike would the bomber actually be escorted by that many F22's? What happens if we need some elsewhere?

Now if there were 6 F22's, 6 F15's, 6 F35's and 6 F16's I wouldn't have a care in the world.

I know we have great minds in the military and trust this is all thought through a thousand times over, but from the layman it looks like a lit of eggs in one basket.

 

And you would be wrong. If it were a real deployment those F-22As would have taken off instead of taxiing out and then returning to their shelters. In the olden days, we launched nuclear bombers with real nukes on them in exercises like ORIs. The two nukes dropped and temporarily lost in Spain put an end to that practice and we no longer fly combat aircraft with live nukes on board. If someone had launched your King Air out of a nearby airport, the F-22As on Zulu alert would have gotten to it before it got to the airfield. Plus how would someone know the exact exercise schedule to plan an attack? Usually the home wing does not even know that because response is one of the things being tested.

F-22As, or any fighter, do not have the range to escort nuclear bombers to their release points or targets. They have other jobs to do.

We have been doing this for a long time and actually have a pretty good idea of what we are doing and what our vulnerabilities are.

 

Roger that. A couple questions: Do pilots on Zulu alert have the engines running? I assume they must at least have the avionics up and running. Do we have pilots on Zulu alert at all times, or is that just during heightened security concerns? I’m sure that varies by location? How long does a pilot on Zulu alert typically “stand guard”? Anymore than a couple hours is probably pretty tough to stay awake, especially at night. I googled it, but didn’t find the answers to the above, but did at least find out what Zulu alert was. I didn’t know what it was called, or that we had planes on the apron. I always figured the pilots were in a lounge nearby, but not on the tarmac. Must be brutal in hot sunny weather.

PS - Not trying to be argumentative with any of this. Just enjoying the discussion. Thanks for your insight.


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I have never sat Zulu alert, although I have sat Victor alert. I think the response time for Zulu alert is 5 minutes (Victor Alert is 15 minutes) and the aircraft are cocked with INS prealigned for quick departure, nothing is on until the crew chief and pilot arrive. The aircrews are close to their aircraft in a waiting area. Likely start cartridges or an internal air supply are used to start the engines and there is no warm-up time for turbines. The shelters are lined up with short taxi-ways directly to the runway. Takeoff distances for air defense fighters are very short, on the order of 1500' or less, I would guess, so time from notification to lift off is very short. Luckily, strapping in to modern ejection seats is simple compared to something like an F-4, so it takes little time to do that.

 

Merrill Field is about 3 miles from Elmendorf, so less than 2 minutes flight time.[/QUOTE]

 

One would think there is 'other' discouraging weaponry around the base with response time in seconds.... possibly????

 

That was my concern as well. Like Tcar said, maybe there are some SAM's or other ordinance that could respond quicker. I wonder if the "button pusher" is pre-authorized to take lethal action? If a phone call has to be made the SAM's won't be quick enough either. I also wonder if the hypothetical kamikaze King Air would be picked up on radar if he flew it right above the ground (100' or so)?

 

Remember the guy who crashed a Cessna 150 onto the White House lawn? Yes, things changed after that, but then there was 9-11, and things changed after that, but that is reactionary. Which all I'm saying is you can't plan for every contingency.

 

It's a two minute drive from downtown Anchorage.

 

I know. 2000 sq mile city with under 300,000 people. There are forestland's with higher population density.

Like I said, middle of nowhere.

 

Is there a land-based version of the CIWS system installed on many modern U.S. Navy ships? That might provide better airfield defense than missiles in some instances.

 

Too many what ifs for me. I try to deal in facts or experience.

 

Come spend some time and it Fairbanks! Anchorage is the big city.

 

Been to both multiple times.
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