Another windows slow/non-working question

Hello together,

this might be a question for the electricians.

While driving home from my tire shop this morning after I got my fresh set of Michelin Exaltos, the driver's side window stopped going up. Going down still worked.
It began a few weeks ago, that the window got very slow once again and I was already prepared for the dreaded motor/gear out job.
But this time it was just the switch. I replaced it with one of the used ones, still working, which I have.

Now my question. The reason for the failing switches are eroded/burned contacts inside. Scraping them clean can help restoring the function, but it takes not too long, till the problem reappears.
Apart from installing a relay circuit, what I want to avoid.... would a little bit of conductive grease protect the contacts to stretch the lifetime of the switches?

My conclusion is also, that the reason for slow windows is not always the mechanism and the hardened grease inside the worm gear, but it can be caused by increased resistance of the switches too. At least this can add to the malfunction.
Now, that I have -temporarily- clean switch contacts, my window is as fast -better said, slow- like always.

At the moment I just aim at increasing the lifetime of the contacts. Therefore my idea with the conductive grease, about which manufacturers say, that they reduce electric erosion on switch contacts.
What do you folks think?

Best Regards and thanks in advance
Martin

 

It would be best to have a relay and not expose the cheap switches to the full current load of the motor.

 

It would also be better to have a better circuit design so there would be some hope of full voltage to the motor and have a motor of about twice the torque. But thats just a wish list.

 

Brian,
the full voltage to the motor should be doable with an additional wire from the battery to a relay, or not?
I just do not know, how to pull one more thick wire through the door harness.

Apart from the fact, that I still have all the voltage loss upfront; Just to protect the switches; would something be said against using the same voltage supply for both relay terminals 30 and 86?
Just offhand I think, 85 to the windows switch, 87 to the motor then.

Best Regards
Martin

 

There is a product called window accelerators. Look them up. Made for Ferrari.

 

I know. But I don't get it, why it should not work on my car. And noone can explain, what should be different on my car than on the compatible cars according to that list:

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Best Regards
Martin

 

I think the list are only cars he is personally aware that it applies to and not the only ones it applies to.
Why the cars it does not go to?? I cannot say but it makes no sense. Possibly feedback from buyers who had trouble. This is a brand I am unfamiliar with.

I have used these. http://rodneydickman.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=229

It is not a cure all. In my experience it helps but do not expect 1970 Cadillac window speed.

 

Thanks. Protecting the switches is the way I want to go. If it accelerates the windows a bit as a side effect, it would be nice, but not so important for me.
I did the motor/gear out and cleaning/regreasing job last year on the passenger side and it's now one second slower, than on my modern Fiat daily driver.
Rodney's solution convices me more, than the solution I have shown (from Superformance UK). But basically it's a two relay solution, which requires additional hot wires into the doors (since the switches are in the armrests), what scares me off a bit yet.
I have converted my headlights circuit to a relay circuit. Also just to protect the stalk contacts. Driving in the dark, worse when it's raining too, is still a major pain.

Best Regards
Martin

 

Martin,
My experience with the relays was let’s say disappointing. I still have them to reduce current to the switches but replaced both window motor/gear/wire systems with the kits from RICAMBI or T. Rutlands (don’t remember which). Problem solved. Windows as quick as my BMW’s. Just got tired waiting for the windows to get faster on their own. I’d certainly help you obtain said kits.

 

Martin, That was my first thought too. You won't remove the voltage drop and slow windows but as you know you will be reducing load on your switch. There's room in the armrest to fit a relay.



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Hi Andrew,
plus the 'slow window part', to which the resistance of the switch contacts contribute to. This was the biggest part on mine during the past weeks, till the switch failed completely yesterday.

Hi Robert,
can you tell me more about these kits or show them? Or a link?

Best Regards and thanks in advance
Martin

 

Ricambi
https://www.ricambiamerica.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=window+motor#q=window%20motor&idx=production_default_products&p=1&is_v=1

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Thanks Robert,

wow! That's a lot of money for this purpose. And honestly, too much for my taste.
I will investigate further, how much the switches contribute to the slow window effect and pull the wires later this evening bypassing the switch.
Will report, how long it will take to close the window.

Best Regards
Marti

 

Good luck. It’s worthwhile running the wire or using the other kit that provides a better ground. In the long run it won’t speed up your window but it will be ready for the new or cleaned up motor assembly.
By the way the price ~$500 ea does include the whole works motor, spool, gearing system and new wire .

 

They have sped up the window on every car I have put them in. Not as much as I'd like but they have always improved the situation. The new motors on the other hand have been a real disappointment. Improvement per dollar has been the lowest of any of the improvements.

They are not powerful enough.

 

Just did a quick check. With the engine not running: 5,5 sec. on driver's side. 5sec. passenger side from fully open till closed. All switches freshly cleaned.
With 12V from a 12V/8amps mains adapter directly on the window motors (adapter not stabilized, delivers around 13V when load of the window motors is applied) roughly half a second faster.
I could perfectly live with these values, but burned, eroded switch contacts are not acceptable.
I will now try for a few weeks or months, whether conductive grease changes the situation. If not I will install a two relay solution per side.I have a bucket full of closing contact Bosch relays, with which it should be possible to make something appropriate.

I agree with Brian, that the root of the problem is motor torque and I'm surprised, that noone came up yet with more powerful motors. I have a dream, that somewhere out there a 12V-DC-motor exists -maybe for any industrial application- in a size which allows to adapt it to the existing gear. Gear is o.k.

Best Regards
Martin

 

I guess results must vary. I’m extremely happy with the results. Fast and as an added benefit my windows now seal against the targa top!

 

Something I didn’t check was if the older motors fit the new assembly from the kit.
Rifle any thoughts or experiences there?

 

Brian,
Did you notice also there is no provisions for the manual crank?

 

On mine it is.

Best
Martin

 

I was referring to the new replacement kits.

 

For switch protection see;

https://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/pdf/Papers/spark_suppression.pdf


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Robert,

I actually also thought about capacitors too. Thinking about and calculating capacity. Too little and it would spark anyway. Too much and the windows run without pushing the switch

Best Regards
Martin

 

Haven't given it a lot of thought Martin but with 2 pole relays (or 2 relays) I reckon you can latch the relay, reducing switch contact time and add a microswitch to break the latch at bottom of travel. I'm sure you've thought this anyway.

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Thanks. But no

Best Regards
Martin