Berger says Hamilton's is Senna's equal | Page 9 | FerrariChat

Berger says Hamilton's is Senna's equal

Discussion in 'F1' started by ATBNM3, Apr 23, 2019.

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  1. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

    Apr 19, 2006
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    Peter Singhof
    q.e.d.
     
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  2. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

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    #202 Mark(study), Apr 27, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
    Software engineers develop the car in today's engineering world. Lewis has been the public face, leader, and talent that kicked off the 5 year championship domination. Whether it was Michael at Ferrari or Lewis at MB, or Tom Brady for the Patriots great teams are sparked and lead by great talents. As much as Ferrari fans may hate to admit it Lewis is in the same rare company as Schumacher.
     
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  3. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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    Attacking another user. Ban till 5/14.
     
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  4. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sid,

    That's factually inaccurate, he has a very low DNF rate, most recent stat I could find is 11 DNFs in 183 races, or 6%.

    Others?

    Vettel 8.7%

    Raikkonen 13%

    I didn't dig deeper.

    I get it, you don't like Hamilton. I'm not a fan of anything but his skills in the car, which you have to grudgingly admit, aren't exactly shabby.

    Do I wish Ferrari would win more races? Uh huh!! Even if only to make it more exciting as the season wraps up for constructor champoinship. But do I thkin Hamilton is a dumb ass with no input in how his car runs, and without any skill beyong being fast? Nope, I do not.

    D
     
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  5. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    You assume I care, so you’ll just have to look stuff up yourself, I’m not your secretary, and I don’t care if you don’t believe Max said what he said or not, your opinions mean absolutely nothing to anyone, and if I bothered to post up the quotes, we all know you’d simply try to twist it, or make excuses and generally not accept it in its context anyway. Do not like it?, lump it sunshine
     
  6. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Yeah my opinions don't mean nothing to anyone, especially when it comes to Hamilton. That's why I constantly post F1 drivers opinions about Hamilton , because their words carry more weight than mine
     
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  7. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    They don’t, You only post the ones that agree with your twisted reality
     
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  8. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    It is not factually inaccurate. The low DNF rate is down to the car Dave, not down to Elton. When Elton has a car issue, it was very obvious to ANYONE that observed him moaning and whining about what settings he had to make, how to change things, what the pit were going to do about the problem, whereas Rosberg in particular got on with making the changes he could on his wheel without the panic stricken moaning. Please don’t twist the subject I was discussing, which was not DNF rates of any cars
     
  9. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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  10. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Apart from venting your own frustrated resentment, what is there to be gained from posting such single brain celled nonsense. :rolleyes:

    Can you not grasp, that not everyone on here regardless of whether they like Hamilton or not, do not share your obsession and hatred of Hamilton.

    Has it not occurred to you, that folk can support Ferrari and still admire Hamilton's skill set.

    We all get it that he is the one to beat, and yes it is essentially a Ferrari fan site, but it's not like he some deadly virus that only infects the host if you are Ferrari fan, folk may like or dislike him regardless of whom they support, it makes no odds.

    Berger has his opinion we all have one, however it is not a case of those who praise Hamilton's achievements like being critical of Ferrari, but posting such over the top resentment (maybe it's a burden too heavy and painful for you) but it does not help in you constantly attacking them, the F1 section is for fans of all marques to have a opinion, whether you like it or not!.
     
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  11. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Sid,

    Here's what you said, "He has on numerous occasions crashed or retired due to his inability to change his driving style or to understand what adjustments are possible from the wheel."

    There's no factual basis for your statement, he has the lowest DNF rate among current winning drivers. That's a reflection of his driving style as much as the car's reliability. I mean, is the car reliable because he drives well, or does he drive well because the car's reliable? Chicken-egg argument, to a degree. And no way of really knowing for sure. And most certainly, he doesn't crash out if his DNF rate is low, right?

    I'm not trying to be needlessly argumentative (I know, a real oddity here in F1) I'm just trying to point out the fallacy in this particular argument.

    I get that you hate the guy, I used to hate the Dallas Cowboys because they ALWAYS beat my Philadelphia Eagles. But, grudgingly I finally admitted they had better talent than we did. A better QB, better defense, and they were just plain faster on offense. Didn't mean I suddenly liked them, but it did mean I recognized superior skill and talent when I saw it.

    I am 100% on board with your hatred of all things NOT Ferrari, but, at some point, the record speaks for itself and you need to, perhaps painfully, admit that right here, right now, Mercedes and their drivers are superior to Ferrari and their drivers. Frankly, I'd love to see all four drivers swap teams and end this discussion once and for all, but that's not gonna happen.

    And lastly, who seems to crash out when the going is fiercest right now?

    D
     
  12. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    We are all entitled to our opinions, and mine is that Elton is a dumb driver.... don’t like it, tough. He isn’t good enough for Ferrari, we just have to get the car and the strategy right. If the Mercedes car advantage were taken away, Elton wouldn’t win more than a handful of races.
     
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  13. ATBNM3

    ATBNM3 Formula 3

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    Hamilton would take Vettel and LeClerc to school in the same car. He's proven himself to be the most versatile driver on the F1 grid racing WDC with two different teams and he proven himself to be a genius behind the steering wheel season in and season out. He's critically acclaimed by everyone in the paddock. Best part for me is there's nothing all your hate and vitriol can do about it...:D:D:D
     
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  14. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

    Jul 10, 2004
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    When Lewis did NOT have a dominant car, he wasn't even in the running. Michael and Senna were bigger threats in their day even without the best car on the grid, which Lewis has had every year for many years in a row.
     
  15. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

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    Lewis was better at getting the best car more often in his career? This shows superior business skills, he got the best car by having the most marketable skills. You can spin this a thousand ways but each time it comes back that Lewis will go down in F1 history as having one of the most successful F1 careers of all time.
     
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  16. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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  17. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

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    One of the most successful doesn't mean = to Senna. Senna never had a totally dominant car AND team 6 years in a row.
     
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  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    When he was at McLaren, Senna had the most dominant car for several years; but he had a very strong team mate in Prost.
    So they shared the WDCs among them for a few years.
    To give an idea how dominant the McLaren was, one year, Senna and Prost won 15 of the 16 GPs!
    The 16th victory was missed at Monza when Senna, who was in the lead, was hit at the chicane whilst passing a backmarker.
    True that the McLaren wasn't dominant for 6 years.
     
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  19. BenchBoy

    BenchBoy Karting

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    #219 BenchBoy, Apr 28, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
    It would be Senna, as he has shown when it rains where all the F1 cars are equal. I have not seen Hamilton win on rain with an inferior car.
    He has always been with a good Team, Just like when Mclaren was going no where he became another regular F1 driver. just look at Leclerc given a good car is showing what he can do and it's not even the best car. Hamilton is good but not better than Senna
     
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  20. ATBNM3

    ATBNM3 Formula 3

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    Oh I thought Hamilton wad thr only driver to win a race in every season he's competed... my bad i must have gotten my facts wrong.
     
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  21. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
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    Hamilton has won races every year since he entered F1, only driver in history to do this, so never a regular driver. No one said he is better than Senna, original post says he is equal.
     
  22. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
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    This has been discussed before, cannot compare drivers from different eras objectively, the cars are constantly evolving so most of the comparisons are pretty much hypothetical . Fangio wouldn't last a few laps in today's cars just based on fitness and age and yet he is considered one of the best and the best of his era . Who knows how Senna would have performed in today's cars , he certainly would have been at the front based on his talent level but talent alone just doesn't cut anymore , a top driver in a lousy car cannot win period .
     
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  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The importance of the driver is less than it was before.
    Racecraft and skills alone cannot overcome an inferior design, aerodynamic flaws or lack of power.
    Wins also depend on strategy often dictated by the team.
     
  24. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

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    P.S.A. to a British driver (Who it has been confirmed to read Fchat): Today is May 1 and it't a perfect day to be completely equal with the Brazilian idol............ :) ;)
     
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  25. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    That is true, and vice versa. I don't think modern F1 drivers has what it takes to drive those monsters back in those days without the safety point.

    Having said that, to me, the name Senna and Schumacher will always be on top of the crop. Looking back, there is so many fond memories of both of them making ordinary cars looks extra ordinary. Can't say the same for Lewis. Sorry.
     
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