Higher Mileage 430 - Should I Buy?

Such a fascinating thread. You guys are preparing me mentally for how I'm going to lose my shirt driving the crap out of my low miles 458, if I ever do need to sell it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Shirts are over rated ! Drive that 458.

 

Not anymore according to the Ferrari dealer i talked to. This check was deemed unnecessary and is no longer performed.

 

That is good to know.

 

There are benefits and drawbacks to purchasing that car. If you are interested more in driving and enjoying a Ferrari I would argue that it is a good option at the right price. If you are only interested in resale then the mileage will put a lot of buyers off. To say a 54k Ferrari is like a 300k Honda is just silly. There are many threads and documented history of Ferrari's with "actual miles" driven being very reliable, in fact more reliable than garage queens. I just purchased my first Ferrari, but certainly not my first upper range car. I also own a Porsche 997 and a Mercedes AMG SL55 that I have had for a long time. Over the winter I made the mistake of not driving my Porsche and sure enough the RMS started to leak ever so slightly. Fortunately after driving it the leak went away. Having cars, especially cars like these, sit for months/years on end is not good for them.

Some commenters appear to imply that if you buy it and drive it that you will only fetch 50K in a couple of years. Show me a car with as documented history as Dan's in the 50k to 60k range and I'll buy it as a second Ferrari. There is value in his documented ownership of the car. By all accounts it should be very reliable. I do agree the 86k auction price was too high, but in the 70's it would be a good buy if you plan on buying it to drive and enjoy.

John

 

No offense to the current owner but this car was NOT maintained, with an open checkbook, to the highest standards. It has not. If you look at his videos they are more like what not to do (i.e. I wouldn't use any of them as reference points on DIY projects as he does a lot of stuff wrong) - he is an amateur mechanic trying to save some money by doing the work himself - there is NOTHING wrong with this but just pointing that out. Regarding mileage, for folks who argue that it is better to buy a car with high miles that is fine but not market reality. The market reality is that there will always be a premium on low mileage cars and a net depreciation for high mileage cars - that is fact. Ferrari's, like all things in life - you get what you pay for.

 

If you guys want to argue against the market then by all means go ahead. I'm just warning the OP so he doesn't have a major shock when he tries to sell it down the line. After a Ferrari has 25-30k miles, I'd argue the % of interested buyers goes down by 50%. Nothing wrong with a higher mileage car, especially if well maintained, but the price has to reflect the higher mileage. There are many 430s in the 80-90k range which have significantly less miles.

 

I actually agree with most of what you wrote here. I know he made some mistakes, but I don't think anything affected the reliability of the car, but you are 100% correct it wasn't maintained with an open checkbook.

I don't believe its better to buy a higher mileage car, but I also don't think its bad because the mileage does impact the buy in price. I do, however, believe that a higher mileage car can be quite reliable and it really depends on one's purpose. If one is buying strictly with resale value in mind, then I agree low mileage cars are where its at. Again, in the 70's I think this car is a great drivers car. I actually bid 70k on this car and would have happily purchased it at that price and driven the heck out of it. Just my opinion, reasonable minds can disagree.

 

Agreed 100%, the mileage does impact the buy in price and resale value for sure!

 

At the end of the day, I think there are two main campers of Ferrari owners. Those like me, that bought a pre-owned car, as I plan to drive easily 4 to 5000 miles a year and then sell it for whatever I get. And those that buy one to (sadly) leave in the garage and look at it. Neither is better or the other. Just your personal preference. All cars depreciate, not just Ferraris.

Weird culture of car owners we are....


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Not really accurate, this is for buyers not for current owners. I always say to buy the BEST car you can afford and then drive the hell out of it and not the cheapest car you can find for sale. As an owner I am not afraid to drive my car but as a potential buyer I would discount for high miles.

 

Finally, someone who has seen through the fog!

 

I'm pretty sure Dan said he was expecting mid 70s to 80s in one of his videos.

If you're going to drive the snot out of it, I think it's a great car.

I get the impression you want to keep your acquisition cost lower and don't mind mileage and less than perfection. That makes Dan's car a great choice in my opinion.

I've been watching him wrench on it for a long time. It's more "known" than others because of this video history.

I'd trust him over a dealer.

If you care about resale, not the car to get.

Steve

 

Less miles doesn´t automatically mean better condition or less issues though. Just pointing out the craziness about just focusing on the mileage.

 

I never said it did. It is a bit crazy but that's the market for exotic cars that most also buy as an investment to hold some value.

 

Fascinating to see a discussion about my car...

 

Maybe make a video about it?

Sent from my SM-G960U using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Too much- sf sports car has one for 89k with less miles the car u describe is max 70k


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The car being driven more is actually a good thing barring wear and tear of course. There’s no straight up answer , it depends on the driver who owned it. Generally, engine mods and tracking with the car are very big minus points. If the previous driver is more on the docile side and clocking miles cuz he’s using it as a DD, that’s fine.

The biggest issue with engine mods is that 90% of ppl who mod their cars don’t do a follow thru with all related parts. What I mean is , you just change one part for “higher performance” or a nicer “sound” but u don’t realise if the rest of ur parts can take the increased heat etc. A properly modified car would cost a lot. Every related part to the mod you make has also got to be altered to cater to the increase in temp, flow , combustion etc.

If the previous owner only did random individual mods, when u take over the car , you’re gonna have to deal with what related parts couldn’t handle the mods.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. I’m by no means a Mechanic .

NB: there is a reason why mods void agent warranty. It’s cuz there are a lot of silly ppl around who “want” to do silly things in the name of better looks and better sound.

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Headers with adequate heat protection is an increase in value in my book. Driving around with stock manifolds is a time bomb.

 

While I agree, “adequate” is subjective and an ongoing learning process . Some variables in the middle to get that sweet spot


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

My personal experience with modded cars is, the owner has had fun with the mods, while the non compaitible parts have been strained. Issues are incoming, and hefty bills to rectify mods are coming up, hence , time to sell. Your experience may vary, but its usually not far from what i've depicted. That and, drivers who mod their cars, usually fit a certain profile. They OBVIOUSLY drive their cars hard. You dont mod ur car to drive like an average commuter.

 

Just a counter point from experience... People who baby their cars - the garage queens, or those that never really "drive hard" are the ones that I've personally seen having the most issues. Garage queens taking the prize for most unreliable. Cars are machines that are designed to be operated. They need to be lubricated and brought up to operating temperature regularly. Ferraris are basically street legal and detuned race cars designed to be driven hard. That's why many components are modularized and can be swapped in and out quite easily. Take the wheels bearings on a 430 for example. Yes, they are expensive, but they are modularized and stupid easy to swap. Why? Because if you fry a wheel bearing at the track, you can swap it out in under and hour.

People that track their cars are particularly pedantic to make sure their cars are in working order. They have to be! If you're taking your car out on a track, and it's not maintained well... You're risking not only your car's butt, but your own safety as well. To get on many tracks, you have to pass track inspections. A track inspection is certainly a lot more in depth than the Texas annual safety inspection required to register a car for street use. I've had to have my car inspected more times for the track then for Texas registration and I can tell you the checklist on the track inspection is one heck of a lot more involved than just making sure my blinkers, windshield wipers, and horn work.

People in the Ferrari world are so scared of track use, miles, DIY maintenance, etc... And I find it hilarious and silly. Unless you're buying a rare Ferrari that you plan to use as an alternate investment vehicle, there's no reason to want the perfect low mileage Ferrari. Those cars are just setting yourself to be stressed out and have a large piece of garage art that never is enjoyed as Enzo intended. If you even remotely think you want to drive the car and actually enjoy it, seek out the Ferraris that have been on the track. Find the higher mileage ones. They've already been sorted out.

All of the nasty maintenance issues that are unexpected seem to happen in the first 10k-20k miles. That's when the stuff the factory got wrong breaks or the poor designed item is recalled. Once the cars are in the 20k+ or better yet, 30K+ range, it starts to become more "regular" maintenance items with the occasional worn part.

In the first 32K miles of my F430's existence, 5 owners had to do a boatload of maintenance and unexpected problems. The 5th owner had $40K in maintenance receipts in the 1 year before I bought it!!! I owned it for 2.5 years and drove it over 20K miles. I had a few lingering maintenance issues from the previous owners that they didn't take care of (wheel bearing, motor mounts, sticky buttons, headliner, leather stretching) but other than these issues, there was literally only 1 time that the car had an unexpected and unplanned maintenance item - the CV boot. All other maintenance was regularly scheduled and simple. I 100% attribute this to driving the car very regularly, and driving it hard occasionally.

On the issue of the value of my car which seems to have a wide range of beliefs.... It really doesn't matter 1 poo what anyone says. It's worth exactly what the next owner is willing to pay. Some people may focus on 1 "negative" in their mind such as it's been on the track and say "Oh, don't buy that car, it's been on the track, it's garbage." Others may look at all the videos documenting the car's life and think that's a positive. I can only tell you this... I've been around quite a few F430's now. I've talked to many Ferrari technicians at multiple dealerships and car shops about the F430. Compared to other F430's I know I think it's worth about $85k +/- a few $K. That really doesn't mean much because again, it's only worth what someone will pay. I did the auction knowing that it was unlikely to get to the $85k price. I fully expected the auction to perform terribly and was doing it as a PR stunt to gain views. Frankly, I was shocked when it hit $75K and blown away when it ended at $86.1k. But the story isn't over yet because it was an auction, and that brings up it's own set of fun problems.

And for those of you thinking just because you take your car to a dealership or mechanic to get service that it's done right... Joke's on you. They're still human. Shortcuts are still taken. You are just none the wiser because you've never taken a peek to see what's really going on. But go ahead and believe what you want. I'm sure they'll gladly keep taking your money.

 

What in the hell did it need for 40k???

 

It had a bunch of stuff done. Valve actuators, clutch, fluids, wheel bearing, components on the F1 system replaced... The previous owner got fleeced a bit in my opinion. But, that's what happens when you take it to the dealership.