16m vs 458sa

Compared to a special edition Ferrari, most Porsches don’t look as special inside and out. They look fairly standardized and they all start looking the same. I also don’t like the seating position and cockpit view compared to a Ferrari. They also don’t sound as good, but they’re getting better. These are the main reasons why I’m not into Porsches.

But for sub $200k.... if you want a truely high performance , legit track car, manual driving experience , you’re not gonna find many cars right out of the dealership that will top a 991.2 GT3. There are many cars that do alot less for alot more.

 

Ferrari and Porsche really are in different leagues; Ferrari being the more emotive car by far.

 

My problem is the 911's all look the same (for decades of course) and sound lame. $200k for a track car? No thanks, better off getting something made safely to track, for a lot less $. You want to do some gentlemans "racing" pretending, then I guess it's cheaper than driving a 488.

 

Not that it matters but the average layperson can't distinguish base Carrera with aftermarket wing from $300K GT2 RS and may even confuse a Cayman with a 911. However, if one want's a manual, the .2 GT3 are hard to beat. I daily drove a 991 GT3 for a couple years, my Huracan is a better daily driver. Smoother ride, better rear vis, higher front clearance, better sounding engine, actually looks exotic and more emotional and special experience. Never see other Lambos but 911's are dime a dozen. If one want's to fly under the radar and still have race car experience it's hard to beat Porsche GT. Ignoring the ADMs and dealer games, the pricepoint of the GT3 at MSRP is competitive. Porsche is just making so many of them that they've lost their exclusivity. Combine this with shady dealer games/markups and it's soured the experience for many potential buyers.

The GT3 has a decent exhaust sound, high pitched at upper RPMs and the various mechanical sounds reverberating within the cabin provide a unique auditory experience.

 

For those of you lamenting the sound of the GT3 I must say, have you driven one?
The beauty of the sound of a 991.2 GT3 isn’t the exhaust sound for people on the street listening as you go by—the mechanical sound is of undampened gnashing gears, cams, and lifters echoes throughout the cabin to the extent that in spirited driving normal conversation is not possible. It is symphonic more so than any Ferrari I have driven. Ferrari excels in exhaust sound nowadays, not mechanical.

 

Scud has a bit of that mechanical sound from the engine and gear change, but not as much as the GT3. GT3 has more sound from the engine, but not as much from the gear change as the Scud. GT3 doesn't have as much of the piercing F1 sound a Scud with an exhaust has. The .2 GT3 is a vast improvement over what Porsche had before, which is why I said they are getting there. I really can't think of a better car that sold new for less than $200k.

 

AND lets be honest....which will you drive harder, put away dirty and not care. Porsche or Ferrari?

 

The 911 for sure.

Or better, a $80k Shelby GT350r (soon to be 500r) right from the dealership (manual, sounds better, cheaper). Might have an image issue though, that I would admit, LOL!

 

that is the joy of Porsches....(and muscle cars...I will admit that I have a 2015 z28. I have washed it maybe 3 times ever. beat the snot out of it and it loves it.)

 

Absolutely spot on. Can’t quite believe I just read that Porsches don’t sound great. Ferrari V8 sound is all about exhaust, even the n/a cars. Porsche GT3 sound is about metallic pieces hitting each other and they do absolutely sound like a beautiful symphony. My GT3 RS sounded better than my Speciale and as good as my V12. One of the standout features of a great car.

 

Nissan gtrs have that metallic-parts, mechanics tool box sound too. The nismo might have more exhaust note.

 

I just purchased my first Ferrari a 458. I am already thinking of a 16m. I daily drive a 991.1 targa. Great car even in snow. The 458 is amazing. There is just something about the 16m that is drawing me in. I have just started looking but I need to sell a few older cars first.

 

Turbo vs NA sound.

6,800 RPM vs 9,000 rpm

No manual option.

Nismo GTR is a great car, but I’ll take the .2 GT3.

 

I'm only commenting that they share similar mechanical grinding noises.

 

Rode in a GTR before. Don’t recall hearing much of anything to be honest. Never been in a Nismo edition.

 

I think better when it comes to sound is very subjective, perhaps I am the exception but for me the Scud was simply too loud in coupe form, the 16M on the other hand was perfect for me, having the roof off adds seems to enrich the sound to my ear. GT3 does sound good but to me not as good as a Speciale. One thing about the GT3 is that because the gearing is so long you really get the hear the engine seemingly rev and rev.

 

Time flies Commander, here are couple more picks from 2015 my SA along side to your 16M, very fitting to this thread


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Gawd...the front of the 16M is pure Italian perfection!

 

I just recently added a McLaren 675LT spider to my garage and I’m absolutely astonished by the car. It’s not as raucous as 16M but I have to imagine that it’s just as engaging in its own way. The car is truly epic.

 

The design has really managed to age extremely well. PF seems to be able to do this so well...

 

that ultimately is the blessing/ curse being a car nerd in this market. SO many epic preowned options. 675Lt for less than $300k..,.2 years ago those were in the $400s!

I spent time learning the 2018 6 speed GT3 market. They are selling for list if not less. The PTS GT3s appear to be selling for more than the non PTS cars.

Tourings appear to have slight over MSRP asking prices.

Regardless, there are a TON of 2018 991.2 GT3 manual transmissions for sale. I track on car gurus. Prices are falling.

 

Yep. I’m seeing manual GT3’s in the 160’s now. I’m curious to see how low they’ll go in a few years. Great bargain.

My buddy in Australia just recently clocked the best time of the day during a Porsche Club track outing with his manual GT3.



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I almost traded my diablo 6.0 towards a 675lt convertible. It is another car on my personal someday have to get it list. It has been dropping. The 288 gto and f1 McLaren are out of reach personally so I think the 675lt and 16 m make great options. Having driven my 458 today and reveling in how crazy fun it is, I feel there is just is some extra magic to a Ferrari.

 

The technology, driving experience, is way beyond anything in its current price range and because of the carbon tub no convertible is close. It feels like half a million dollar car. Plus only 500 spiders total. With that said my 430 and 550 are hugely entertaining to drive as well.

 

I love this thread! No question, Ferrari's are the more "special" car but outside of the Ferrari, these are two of my favorite. I implore ANY car geek to drive the 7.0L V8 in the Z28 and not think the sound is to absolutely die for. I had one (eventually traded it for my first Ferrari) and I loved that car. That engine at redline is ONLY surpassed by the sound of a Ferrari V12 at 8500 RPM. Tracked the snot out of it and while it is massive, it can handle and the shifter is great. My consolation is I a still track a car with that gorgeous 429 engine so I'm good.

As for the GT3, it is a more practical daily if you need to drop just a bit under the radar and when you can open it up, agree that the sound at 9k RPM is most definitely special (think a ripsaw cutting through a sheet of metal), even if I liked the sound of the 458 at redline better. That is a great car (though I agree, not a Ferrari replacement).

So to sum up, the Z28 is like the Pavoratti of engines, the Porsche is like the metal workshop, the 458 the angry hornets nest, and the V12 is the closest to F1 (old school F1) on the planet. I love them ALLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!! Need......more......garage......space......(more money wouldn't hurt either).