Martin Brundle just unleashed on F1 | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Martin Brundle just unleashed on F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by Bas, May 14, 2019.

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  1. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    I'm weeping with you:)

    Exactly, drivers whingeing about the slightest infringement and everyone jumps up and down as if they have been poleaxed. I think most of these racing drivers have forgotten their early days in karting.

    Race craft has been lost and agree they seem to be fixated on overtaking as the spectacle.

    The whole race is now dominated by tyre wear and who cocks up in the strategy (mostly SF), that isnt racing its endurance !

    tony
     
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  2. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    The ''half the fuel load'' is a myth. Not helped because today we measure fuel in KG not liters. Back in the V10 era some 200 liters would be used per race per team, today we have 110kg per race which is 146 liters. It's really not that much better.

    The drivers are in favour of it...I think they know what's better for racing.

    I agree with that
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    I don't think neither the drivers, nor the teams should be consulted about the rules.

    Nothing worst than décisions taken by committee !!!
     
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  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I'd prefer drivers have the say rather than teams. They're the ones driving the car and can really illustrate best what is really needed or not.

    That said, smart drivers know who they have in their design group and what the strengths are and play on that....
     
  5. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, yes, and no !!!

    The drivers are employees who go through F1, and leave after a few years.
    The teams are there to stay, and some décisions can compromise their interests.
    Half of the field don't deserve to be consulted anyway, IMO.

    I also think that asking participants (teams or drivers) for their opinions, will open a pandora box and start endless discussions.
    A concensus is unlikely to be agreed anyway, so I am for an arbitrary and brutal decision, in the interest of the business, not of the players.
    I think the commercial interests of F1 are Paramount to ensure the survival of this costly business (sport if you like), because that's what is at risk, not the type of engine, or the aero, or the refuelling, etc ... which are of secundary consideration.
     
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  6. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I actually would not like to see refueling again. Aside from the danger, which could be minimized with more modern tech, I'll admit, having to set the car up to handle properly full or empty is a good challenge to give the engineers.
     
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  7. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2009
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    Hehehe, let’s see refuelling when those lame formula e cars try it, parking up in the pits for 4 hours so they can go racing for 20 minutes...... ****ing hell..... that formula has to be the most boring idea ever. Didn’t barrichello lose a race because his AAA batteries packed up 150 yards from the end? What a bloody joke!

    Anyway, back to the formula we love to hate (I for one want V8 or V10, less aero ******** and a lot more driver input, and no more pretending we care about global warming and plastic carrier bags)
     
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  8. JLF

    JLF Formula 3
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    Sep 8, 2009
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    #108 JLF, May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
    I actually skipped the last 2 races. First time in years I have intentionally missed a race. I think I’m done with F1 in its current state. It all started downhill with hybrid and continues to turn into something that no longer interests me and that’s pretty damn saddening.
     
  9. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    IndyCar had refueling fires (yes, multiple times) this past week. Everyone was okay, but it brought back memories of when F1 was more dangerous and fun to watch than now.

    For the first time ever I prefer IndyCar to F1 and I don't see that changing anytime soon. The cars look difficult to handle, have great sound, and have some good battles on track. It could use some improvement, like with anything, but the product imo is better than Mercedes cruising to a 1-2 every weekend. They're not the fastest cars in the world and F1 is faster, but if all I care about is speed (I don't) then I'll watch top fuel racing.

     
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  10. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
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    Mr. Anderson
    I wish I could be interested but I'm just not. . Neither is my wife and she's a gear head. It's boring. Why watch any "sport" when you already know the outcome before it starts or ends? I've said this before. F1 is a spectacle,not a sport. I stand by that statement. We record it when we remember and may watch part of it. That's about it. I don't feel like I'm missing anything. That's a shame. I wish it were different.

    I bought a vintage MX bike last summer. I used to race. I started watching the Supercross races this season here and there. It's way more exciting. At least they are actually racing each other!!
     
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  11. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I find "tyre management" incredibly exciting! I mean, for me nothing beats a superbly executed undercut! Those guys on the pit wall.....so inspiring!

    Whoopee!















    *spit*





    :mad:
     
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  12. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Has F1 ever had serious injuries during refueling? Especially after pitcrew had to wear fire retardant suits? I don't think we have. Final refueling race it went wrong for Kovalainen and Kimi drove through it, dousing him in petrol rendering him unable to see much but he soldiered on...

    Even Jos Verstappen's enormous fire I don't think they had anything worse than minor burns.
     
  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I'm 50/50 on it. The last time we had refueling cars where aero heavy and far different tyres. I liked the fact that cars that weren't as good could make a difference by implementing clever strategy and some skillful driving to make the difference, and be in a position they normally wouldn't be in. We'd see far more, and better, defending.

    The downside of course is too often later on we saw teams use strategy to do an overtake instead of on track. But then again, we didn't have aero rules that where favourable for actual racing, back then. So it was the only choice.

    The lighter cars vs heavier made it quite interesting. Far more interesting than now, imo....where we have a Mercedes 1-2 leading the rest.

    I liked the 3 stopper vs 1 stopper races....a 3 stopper being a far lighter car so lapping much quicker, but having to lap much quicker to offset the time lost in pitstops...and do overtaking as well.
     
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  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's my main objection; refuelling takes away the need for a driver to pass another car, and delegates the crew to devise some strategy to obtain the overtake in the pit. That the opposite of racing to me.

    IMO, a 90 minutes GP could be raced without tyre change and refuelling: flat out all the time !
     
  15. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    One of the benefits FIA said of not refueling is not having to waste money moving refueling rigs to every race...

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Always found it a bizarre excuse. Especially considering with what you posted above:eek:
     
  17. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    More power
    More tire
    Less aero
    Three compounds per race: dry (engineered to last a full race), intermediate, rain. Period
    No fuel limitations
    No limits on engine configuration/formula to accommodate both normally aspirated and turbo/supercharged engines
     
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  18. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    How do you envision that working? Something like CanAm? :D

    But seriously, a formula needs at least loose boundaries on engine configuration, doesn't it?
     
  19. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Limitations on displacement, of course, but freedom for number of cylinders and basic engine architecture.....V, boxer, in line, etc.

    As somebody who enjoyed the original CanAm series, I can confirm that F1 would do well to emulate it in many respects,
     
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  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    years ago when given free choice on engine design (NA, and eventually 3 liters), we had V8/10/12s running in the field...but it became clear that the V10 was the best compromise. They'll arrive at the same conclusion again.

    If we open up aspiration as free we'll end up with a bunch of **** sounding turbos.

    IMO the 2007 V8 rules are the best as there is little chance one engine will be stand out better from the rest. There willl only be a small power advantage between the best and worst engines. One will probably use a bit more fuel the other a bit less, and it'll even out.

    Limiting maximum aerodynamic load will be another step in the right direction.

    All in an effort to make the best drivers be champion, not the cleverest engineer...
     
  21. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    CanAm was the first series outside of IndyCar and NASCAR I discovered. Before F1. The CanAm commentators turned me on to F1. :)
     
  22. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    I think F-1 needs to open up rules on Power units - allow all kinds, Internal combustion - electric hybrid, turbine etc... let the most efficient win. nominate the fuel source, and max power of 1500 BHP - sealed engine units from the beginning of the year.

    Allow testing again, and allow spare cars at races. freeze aero development - tire tech for 10 years. let the engineers get super creative and that can bring in the car companies and more diverse sponsors. problem is all the money is tied up in a tight circle ... and no body is wiling to invest - diversify.
     
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  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    CanAm was my all-time favourite series, I must say !!!
    Nothing has come close to that since its demise.
    It was a magic era.
     
  24. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    V12 normally aspirated every time for me
    The problem is that the big boys want hybrid cars and will pull out of F1 if the rules change back to NA engines, for them it accelerates the technical advance needed for the reasons you gave. For me they should go endurance racing and leave the pinnacle of motor sport to "racing"

    I always remember my first race in 72 I think, German GP and see Jacky Ickx with all four wheels of the ground at the Nurburgring circuit in the Ferrari 312 B2, I was hooked.
     
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  25. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    No specific limits on horsepower. Ever.
     
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