Stealerships

Interesting subject regarding negotiation of fees. Many times ive tried to find out the cash price of a medical visit or procedure. Deer in headlights is the normal reaction. Many doctors or their offices simply dont know what the actual price is. Ive been told one price for an MRI only to get a bill for 3 times the amount. Trying to nail down a cost for surgery is just about impossible. So applying the same method to car buying would you agree with the dealer saying “we have no need to negotiate with car buyers?”

While I pay a considerable monthly cost for my employees to have health insurance ive just added a concierge service in which I pay a separate monthly fee to a local doctor to get my staff in quickly and diagnose over skype on minor issues. $24k a year for a staff of 50 - thats in addition to my normal health insurance costs, which is an average of $525 per employee per month.

Many of the doctors i know have no ideas of the fees charged to patients, but maybe that is just in my neck of the woods.

Congrats on the fcar purchase.

 

I thought you claimed that in network vs out of network had nothing to do with you.

Yet now you are talking about your reimbursement rate being based on an insurance contract.

You’re free to accept whatever reimbursement rates are associated with being in network.

Guess that’s not enough, huh?

 

@Chizz hey dude let it go. this shouldn't surprise us. look at the state of our health care system. we are consistently surrounded by steadfast disciples of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Explaining how insurance companies, pharma, and the government set costs and the expenses charged by hospitals and surgery centers would be a good effort if the troll could understand. I am a surgeon as well and I know exactly what you're saying. For those of you who actually want to understand the process, when a patient asks you how much is this surgery going to cost me, it comes down to their insurance, whether they have govt coverage, the surgery center and/or hospital fees, and the physicians professional component (which is infinitesimal compared to everything else). Unless you own your private practice and can decide whether or not to take insurance or govt coverage, these decisions are made by hospital administrators, usually MBAs although some are also MDs. Obamacare essentially closed the door on small private practices by forcing utilization rates, decreasing reimbursement, and driving business from outpatient surgery centers to the hospitals. The winners are the hospital administrators, the insurance company CEO's, and some patients who now have insurance and previously did not. The losers are everyone else. I hope this makes sense. GH13 stop trolling, educate yourself, and stop being a bastion of fake news.

 

I get your frustration but here's what I don't understand. If you didn't like the dealer and/or their tactics from the get go, why did you continue to deal with them? I just walk away from a deal if I dislike the other person so much.

At the end of the day, you agreed to $1,000 and they took advantage of that a bit. You were specifically taken advantage of for $400 on a Ferrari purchase, that's peanuts if you really think about it.

Just enjoy the car and your life. You should know by now that not everyone has your integrity.

 

The fact that you resort to name calling tells me everything I need to know about you.

But hey, continue to pretend like your compensation is irrelevant to the cost of healthcare, whilst rushing to the defense of someone who is upset that a Ferrari dealer made an extra $400.

 

@GH13: whatever axe you've got to grind against physicians, please grind it elsewhere. You have been banned for 1 week for starting and escalating a disruptive quarrel.

Edit: following productive email correspondence, @GH13's ban has been lifted.​

For everyone else:

Discussion of healthcare costs, insurance, legislation, and the thoughts of pastors isn't appropriate for the Ferrari model forums. If you must discuss these things, I suggest taking it to the Politics & Religion forum.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

But bashing other businesses is ok

 

Back to topic... To answer the original question from my opinion, it's crap and not how I like to do things. But at the end of the day that's how some businesses choose to operate. Fortunately it's only $400, could be worse. Enjoy the car!

 

So a broker who handles your transport makes money for his/her logistics is bad? That’s what they do for a living and get us our cars.

 

Feel free to discuss your thoughts on dealership practices without digressing onto topics that are political hotbeds.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

The thread name is stealerships. Not I had an issue with my dealer.

 

I understand. I assumed your thoughts of dealers are positive, so that's certainly worth discussing as a fair rebuttal to the OP's complaint - and you are indeed doing so. Carry on.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Well I learned about morals from Rin Tin Tin, (I think that dog had more than many humans I have encountered), but I do get the honestly part. Unless you try and hurt one of my dogs I have about as much emotion as a paperclip, and over the years I have been sent paperwork from dealers (I buy a lot of cars many from out of state site unseen no ppi), that have charges I don't like and will not pay. I have a wheel guy (I have given his name to many of the local dealers I know), he charges me between$100-$175.00 a wheel, the dealers I have given his name to charge, at least twice what he charges them. Like a bottle of wine at a restaurant, my girlfriend likes some sort of unfiltered Napa Valley something which the restaurant sells for over $250 a bottle, I know it is a big markup but it is what it is, so I accept it. You are obviously a very educated guy (I never made it past the 8th grade), and you understand the concept of a mark up. I will say this unless transport is included in the deal, I always arrange my own. After over 475 cars doc I could tell you stories that would make you never buy a car again, but I shrug it off and go about my business of trying to make the world a better place for as many people as possible.

 

475 cars... and my wife thought I was bad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

An excellent lawyer once advised me that the kiss of death in any litigation is when one of the parties says that they are acting 'out of principle' and it was very good advice indeed. It has been my experience that people who cite 'principle', 'morals', 'honesty', 'integrity', etc. are much more complicated than they sell themselves as. Remember a Lion does not need to tell you that they are a Lion.

The OP self proclaimed them-self as being a hard negotiator and demanding (ie. insisting the dealer fee be removed from their invoice). Later on he agreed to a price for shipping and was unhappy that the dealer made money on that part of the transaction. He is however ignoring the internal logistical costs and risks associated with handling the shipping on behalf of the customer (as if this has no cost associated with it). What the shipping component of the transaction cost the dealership is immaterial as the customer accepted the cost and I would assume was not denied the opportunity to figure out and co-ordinate the shipping logistics on his own.

Had anything happened to the car during the waiting or shipping component of the transaction it would have been on the dealer to correct it at their expense and that is part of the 'extra' $400 that was paid.

Funny thing is that our local Ferrari dealer is known for taking no crap from customers. I have seen him literally tell people to get the F out of the dealership when they tried throwing their 'weight' around. I guess the nice weather makes dealers much friendlier in Florida

 

So Chizz- ortho ?Chisel?

As a surgeon myself, I see you. Surgeons tend to have control and accountability issues. We live in a very artificial world where people cater to us in the moment and the world view of a surgeon is often distorted to what makes sense to us. You’re exhibiting this behavior outside of the operating room colleague.


Who decides how much a business makes in profits ? Who decides what the standards are for a deal ? You have some say but not all as a customer. You can choose the deal or not.

The comments that our services as surgeons are opaque and Byzantine are accurate. Pricing, insurance networks etc are all virtually impossible to know ahead of time and certainly we don’t review them when we schedule surgery ourselves while our offices might. That said in a US. News and world report top Medical school where I was faculty, no one knew. Shame on us.

If you beat up the dealer on everything, what do you think they’ll do when you call again? Probably ghost you. You’re not worth the time.

Amazing advice on litigation on principle. Found that to be. So true. And people who say it’s not the money usually are saying it’s the money.

How long do you complain to all that will listen when your case is delayed?

 

Headlines tend to frame the discussion these days. Your choice of title, "Stealerships", created an impression that you weren't able to back up with the details. Maybe it was simple "frustration" on your part, but being frustrated doesn't entitle you to extreme accusations. Now there are dealers who have reportedly failed to deliver a car on payment or failed to pay for a car entrusted to them on consignment that sold with cleared funds. Use of the term "Stealerships" would be looked on much more favorably by most users for those situations than for yours.

You don't have to go out of your way to be non-controversial here. Simply post and discuss things with a sense of proportion. If what you got out of this thread was to lay low and keep quiet, then you learned the wrong lesson.

Case in point. You chastised the sales manager for using the phrase "steal our car" to you because you felt your negotiating practices was simply being a smart consumer, yet you accused them of being a "Stealership" in the title because you disagreed with the markup they charged on a third party service. That just does not come across as proportionate or reasonable. Users on this board don't automatically come down against dealers and for customers; they want to hear the details and are just as ready to call a customer a PITA as a dealer a POS.

If you had wanted honest commentary on whether or not the markup was a fair complaint, you wouldn't have used the term "Stealership". Instead, you were declaring your judgement at the same time you were ostensibly asking for input, which comes across as disingenuous, and that rarely works on this site.

 

Rite from the title of your post you can tell you are probably a nightmare customer.

Do your patients come and negotiate the price of surgery with you? You probably did get the car for a great deal if the manager said that, and its people like you who get the best deal who end up complaining the most - based on your attitude if i was that dealer i would have politely booted you out of my dealership once you started giving me attitude & trying to dictate to me how much profit i should make on my pretty pricey investment -

 

You didnt expect them to make money on transport? If you do, and you accept the total cost, why does it matter how much they upcharge?

I agree about dealer fees and I think they are ridiculous esp on a Ferrari.

 

When I was kid, my dad took me to a dealer to buy my first car. He told the sales guy to go put on boxing gloves, and prepare for a "haggle fight".
Although in the end, were got a fair price, I remember not really enjoying the whole experience .
Years later, as I walked into the Ferrari dealership, to buy my 488, I had no intentions of bargaining . I figured , I can afford it, I know they going to make a profit, and it is what it is. As it happened, the sales guy said he would take $5K off the sticker--without me even asking. DONE! and I felt great!
Now, when I go back into the dealership, I never have to feel embarrassed about trying to get a better deal . The staff all like me, I'm treated with respect, and all in all, it my car to me is worth every cent.
YOLO---if not now, when?