Is the Monza selling?

Because that will make the relative pista more unique where as all the monzas in the US will be of similar mileage with a small audience of potential buyers


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Big topic. You misunderstood me though, read my post again and you will see. I never said Ferrari was not profitable or that their model was not the right one. Quite the contrary. Ferrari went through a renaissance since 1995, created wonderful cars and added considerably to its brand value. It was the right strategy

Perhaps though it is easier to generalise and not refer to one manufacturer, so lets try again:

To start with, the term “profitable” is relative: a company can make a profit of one cent, one million or one billion and be called “profitable” in all three cases. It can also have 25% return on equity if it can generate that profit by deploying 4 cents, 4 million or 4 billion of capital respectively. In all cases you would be speaking about a profitable company with high return on equity. Doesn’t say much about its ability to withstand market pressure

My core thesis is that being successful in the car industry in the next 20 years will be materially more expensive than it was in the previous 20 years: the product cycle is shorter, new markets need to be opened (like China), compliance with emissions and safety regulation is increasing in cost and innovation stretches way beyond an interesting shape, gearbox and engine: the pace of evolution in electrification and other alternative fuel forms, driver aids, new materials etc is high and requires constant investment and research. Also keep in mind that the competition is just getting bigger in size and commands more scale than it did in 1995.
So we are not just talking about profitability. We are talking about a large and increasing number of millions that all manufacturers need to spend in order to stay up-to-date. Now combine this with a broadly constant -and small- production size and a fixed margin and see if you can make the numbers work. You can’t. Either production numbers go up or margins do. In large volume manufacturing margins tend to go up through economies of scale rather than price increases because pricing power is low. In small volume / niche manufacturing, cost savings can dilute product quality and desirability so margins improve by launching products that can be priced more favourably.

So all I am saying is that what worked in the last 20 years will not work in the next 20 years. And this applies to ANY industry, not just car manufacturing

Goes some way to explain why some manufacturers are moving further upmarket while others launch models that are designed to multiply their production base. Both are alternative ways of reaching the same outcome.



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I have an alternative theory: people pass because they are not confident that it will double in value like other limited series. The fact that -in the US- you consider it a pretty vase is totally irrelevant. Lots of people spend millions on works of art they can’t drive either.
Do you think the same people would have passed if the car was $500k ?


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Potentially. Not a ton of challenge cars sold here for track day use.

 

Ferrari's new business model attempts to capture (at least for Icona examples) profit lost to secondary market when 1st owners resale cars for profit. Question is: If 1st owners have already paid said higher price such that no profit can be made in secondary market, and dare I say stand to LOSE in secondary market, how many of those buyers will be sufficiently motivated to buy in the first place? Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that there do not exist buyers of LE/Icona models that wouldn't buy if they didn't possess confidence that they can get out of the car whole++ with a profit. Once that's gone, then what happens.

 

Monza msrp shld be what secondary market prices a tdf, @ 900k


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Ferrari for the most part has done a very good job of putting the special and limited cars in strong hands. By strong, I mean not motivated to sell for profit. Collection completing cars. Monza will do very well on the secondary market if only a handful at a time come up for sale. Drop 50 examples on the market at once, of anything, in a race to raise liquidity (buyers market) and it, like all of the limited series cars, will find a much lower floor.

 

That would be my argument as well... However, such thinking falls under the old regime (i.e. Luca days) and doesn't fit the profit model of post-IPO public company.

 

How many monzas are they making? 500 in all or 500 sp1 and 500 sp2?


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I had similar thoughts about Pista pricing, including what seems to be a higher than previous expected spend on “options” (eg stripe, exterior carbon) that appear to be considered “must have” if consensus on FChat is accurate.

In the next few years, The second hand market will show if Ferrari is capturing all the money that used to be left on the table to be retained by the first buyer.
If this does occur, I wonder what will be the effect on perceived desirable.

Even if the vast majority of buyers are not breaking even on their ownership, the perception that one _may_ break even has previously enhanced brand value. If future “special” versions (notwithstanding the differences bt limited/numbered/icona/etc) depreciate at similar rates as nonspecial, the halo of high cost cars may be diminished to some buyers.

Add to that the built in obsolescence of batteries and presumed higher cost of longer term ownership/maintenance (cleaning carbs that have been sitting unused is cheaper than replacing a tapped out LaF battery), the “collectibility” of modern cars will be a different game than previously.

 

499 total of the SP1 & SP2 not 499 of each. So approximately 150 for the US. How many collectors are there in the US?
There are over 700 LaFerrari including the Aperta, and many more Ferrari collectors who couldn’t get one. That’s why Ferrari sold out the Monza as soon as it was shown and available for purchase. It’s sold out and not to flippers or they wouldn’t have been approved for the Monza.


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Laferrari was special. Monza is an 812 no?


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It is a 812 with an uprated LaFerrari engine 6.5 liter instead of 6.3, both have custom carbon bodies. LaFerrari has a carbon monocoque but still weighs more than the Monza. Monza also has 4 wheel steering like the 812 but a but a suspension tuned more aggressively like the TDF.
Monza also doesn’t have the complexity and weight from the electric propulsion. Whether you would like to have a non hybrid V12 or the battery and electric motor for the extra punch is a personal preference. Personally, having an 812 and a TDF, I am satisfied with the pure V12’s acceleration and don’t think I’ll miss the hybrid electric component.
You either love the Monza’s looks or not. I think it’s fantastic, nostalgic and yet a pure bred supercar. Every time I see a new livery I think what a unique car. I haven’t been this excited about a new Ferrari in years and am planning on keeping it forever so don’t care about the aftermarket sales performance. I hope the next Icona is as exciting and I can be lucky enough to be chosen to get one.



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The passion oozes in your post. Wish i still felt that way when new cars are announced.


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The contract specifies you can’t sell (above or below) msrp for the first 18 months without giving Ferrari first refusal.

 

812 barchetta

 

Yes 500 total with clients free to chose one model or the other

 

Did they say why?

 

Yes, but even after the lock up period there normally isn't a big rush to the door to cash in. Which obviously would crush asking prices if they actually wanted to unload.

 

Next best thing to Monza, or dare I say, better than Monza will be 812 spyder...isn't it?
Cheaper, road legal FR V12 at its best with roof up or down.

I still can not justify the price of Monza. With that price range, they should include some kind of special treatment like full year track day around world when they rent famous tracks for challenge driver schedule or some sort with store and maintenance service from Ferrari itself for customers who would like to buy but cant drive in their home town.

 

Yes maybe except it isn't really safe on track as there is no head protection.

Completely agree on 812 spider I have a soft order on one.

 

Both are ending their Ferrari purchases. Both say Ferrari no longer produces anything that interests them. Both feel Ferrari is making too many cars. One was burned by his dealer on recent Pista deal. The other LOST money on recent Tdf sale which, though resulted in a gross profit, the NET was a loss due to having to purchase multiple other Ferraris in order to qualify to order Tdf new.

 

Hahahaha - we shld start a club. I knew i cldnt be the only one to reach that conclusion.


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Hmm I can relate to that. My last “allocation” cost $77,000 and I didn’t put a single mile on the car. I’m not a mathematician but I think that’s quite expensive per mile lol. But I have some nice cars coming. It’s definitely possible to get fatigue from playing that game and as msrps climb drastically to squeeze out any juice Ferrari are playing a risky game.

 

by they way fwiw i just want to be crystal clear - if i was a wealthier person i wld absolutely own a monza and one of everything else too...