AVH failure resulting in locked brakes

The individual modules in the car, some of which "speak" to each other, are very sensitive to voltage changes and low voltage. When one gets triggered, it can often affect others and we can get numerous warning lights. It doesn't take much for voltage to drop below a threshold that triggers the lights, especially on very hot days, or when the car sits in the Sun/heat for an extended period of time. Much of the performance engineering that makes these cars special is driven by electronics, and the way most people drive their cars (short distances, maybe A/C on, radio, etc.) doesn't always support maintaining sufficient voltage levels to prevent the warning lights. (There are of course more significant issues that can be caused by other defects, as reported by some in this thread.)

My 2018 488 Spider, when home is always on the charger, lit up like a Christmas tree on startup last week after I stopped for lunch with friends. Got the usual, call the funeral home everything is dead lights. Shutdown, restarted, most disappeared, drove home, had Ferrari pick it up, they checked all electronics, battery good (saw the test report), electronic draw easily within limits (yes, they can check this as well), nothing really to point to as an issue....so it's just something we live with......

Point is, unless a serious problem presents, if all lights clear on a restart the car is probably fine, especially if the battery reports as normal. Leaving it plugged in for a couple days usually results in the car "healing" itself. (I think it takes several hours for some of the electronics/modules to fully shutdown, this may be why a restart doesn't always clear all lights, but not sure.)


Jim

 

I know what you mean Jim and I havn't posted before but I think its important to just re-emphasis a few points, just incase others are in the same boat:

Car has always been, and is immediately placed on trickle charger after use. It's not a case of lack of battery maintenance/care.

If it was just the lights/warning codes, without the parking brake actually being stuck on(and unable to manually release at all), I wouldnt really mind and just drive it/restart it etc etc as everyones already said. I've been "stuck" unable to move the car for a good 20minutes 4 times in the last month, after the issue was reported and investigated specifically for the AVH issue (fully battery and electronics check).

I've even been watching the voltages over the last few months to track that, its operating normally and not loosing charge below the expected range that it cycles between whilst driving.

For me, the longer I leave the car on charge, the more likely it seems to trigger. Suprisingly its the shorter trips that dont seem to flick it, but after a long 45-hr long of driving (mix of spirited + normal driving) it regularly happens.

Reason I'm reiterating my points is I'm hoping others that have similar issues keep posting their experiences (and possible solutions). With annoying small neiche issues, the more reports the easier it is for us to work with Ferrari in resolving it. It's been an ongoing little gremlin in my car for the last 13 months. Not a major deal, but for sure super annoying (and frustrating when it happens).

 

Agreed. I posted my comment above after being told the electronics and battery were fine, just a temporary low voltage issue. I accepted that, but frankly did have a problem with the logic. If the electronics and battery test out to be fine, then why would there ever be low voltage issue??? Of course there is nothing they can do if they can't locate a problem, and the system (my car) checks out as okay.

As a follow up, they were about to bring my car back to me today, and to their surprise, when it was started all the same warnings lights I mentioned came on! So, it will now remain with them while they try to find the cause somewhere in the electronics.....but according to the inspection a couple of days ago it's not the modules....it's not the battery.....not the charging area.......not anything they could see in the electrical system.......so I'm thinking maybe it's the tires......we'll see.

Jim

 

I don't want to flog a dead horse, but imagine being in your situation and having the brakes lock while you're driving, and you're stuck for 20+ minutes in a situation such as on the highway and cars are swerving around you and blaring their horns. And you can't get out of the car because you're in a middle lane. There are big trucks with crummy brakes speeding towards you, unaware that you have stopped. It's not the same thing as running out of gas or having trouble such that the engine stops, in those cases you can coast to the side. If this ever happens, you probably will not regard it as a little gremlin!

This is the point I could not get Ferrari to understand, and why it went to court. Not what DID happen, but what COULD HAVE happened!

 

100% agree. Luckily mine has only been with the parking brake that gets stuck. Ferrari technition told me theres systems in place that prevent the parking brake from being able to be used at all if the car detects motion/movement. I brought up this thread and the comments about brakes locking whilst the car is moving. He said it shouldnt happen to me due to the systems mentioned.

Not that I can prove or verify it myself, but so far never happened whilst moving. I'd be freaked out for sure and likely sell the car or take the steps as you have to fix the situation.


Other than this, my experience has been nothing short of amazing with the 488.

 

Might be a couple of days before I get an update, they're looking deeper into the electrical system. I might be surprised, but I'm expecting to hear the usual "can't really identify a problem, likely just a momentary low voltage glitch in the system." Really?? Given the number of times this happens to most of us, it seems logical to me that someone at the factory needs to spend some time in Japan attending a school for automotive electrical engineering, then maybe do a year working with Toyota's electrical design folks.....might create some "aha moments."

Jim

 

I’ve had a somewhat similar problem with my 2017 488 GTB. Car is always on factory trickle charger. But AFTER substantial driving at freeway speeds, with multiple electrical loads on, battery goes dead. AVH error code displays, along with several others. Electrical system goes bonkers, car won’t start, won’t shift into neutral so you can move it, and electric controls (lights, trunk opener, fan) stop working...Ie lights stay on and you cannot turn them off. Car had to be towed to dealer.
First time this happened, dealer diagnosed a “bad battery.” Second round of this problem happened yesterday. Think battery may be being gradually killed by faulty alternator. Or ??

 

In my experience the systems that keep the parking brake from locking while moving don't work. 99% sure it was the parking brakes that locked, due to the fact that I was able to overpower them with the engine to get the car to safety. Had this been the service brakes I don't think that could happen. I double checked it by testing overpowering both braking systems (in a big parking lot), and it certainly seemed the amount of power it took to overcome the lock was consistent with the parking brake.

But, and this was my major point, no matter the situation, state of battery charge, electronic failure etc, there should exist safeguards such that the brakes *cannot ever* lock on their own accord. I mean safeguards that work, not theoretical ones that don't.

 

That does not sound like this problem at all. But it does sound like a PITA, I'm sorry for your trouble.

 

ttt

 

I'd like to hear the resolution for you, if there was one. Was it the alternator? I have a 2019 488 GTB, less than 2 months old, that I was driving to the ocean, about 80 miles away Thursday, 5/23. Similar to your experience, the engine shut down at a VERY busy left turn lane, on a very busy hwy. The car was dead, wouldn't start, locked in park, parking brakes locked on, lots of traffic, couldn't move it. I was stuck there for 4.25 hours waiting for the approved tow truck provider. Still at the dealer through the weekend at least.
They told me they think it is the battery (just like you). What a ridiculous situation for a company to allow for multiple customers of expensive cars (I've heard the batteries are bad). This is my 4th Ferrari and they are always finicky, but this is downright dangerous. The way the battery is located, it seems hard to jump.....UNLESS, HOPEFULLY, SOMEONE HAS A SUGGESTION REGARDING JUMPING THE CAR (PLEASE).
I have a 2017 Porsche 911 Turbo S, as well, which has been a great car, no problems. In fact, I picked it up in Las Vegas and drove it to Maine and back, within the first month I owned it (2nd Porsche Turbo so I had confidence in its reliability). I would never attempt that in a Ferrari.
Sorry to say, IMO a Ferrari should stay within a reasonable tow distance from a dealer. And this experience reinforces that to me.
Again, any suggestions about jump starting a 488 or an aftermarket fix that allows me to jump the car and get out of the road in a situation like this?

 

I actually did jump start my 488, passing the cables initially through the open right door and then through the window (since the window could not go down without the battery connected, obviously - which reminded me how useful it was to have a spare crank to operate manually the windows on the 400 and testarossa).

 

I'm not worried about the cables, I'm concerned about getting a good connection to the positive post, as there seems to be a metal cover or something obstructing access. I was in the middle of the road when I accessed the battery so I could be wrong. But I didn't see any direct connection opportunity.

 

Without doing damage that is....

 

I don't have any solution to your problem, I'm just sorry it happened. It seems obvious at this point there exists some kind of widespread problem with the 488, perhaps other cars as well.

To be fair to ferrari in general, before the 488 I had a 360, then a 430 Spider, then a Scud which I still have, and have put some 15K miles on it. I haven't had any of these problems with those cars, not did they ever leave me stranded, nor did they ever have to be towed for mechanical issues, and I would not hesitate to drive them long distances. But absolutely not the 488!

My only real point here was I laughed when you wrote you waited 4.25 hours for the "approved" tow truck driver. My "approved" driver, who came after I called Ferrari Roadside Assistance, had "never done one of these before... A 488? No, a Ferrari." FNA just contracts out to local guys, like all the other brands.

 

After having virtually all the brake and electrical problems noted here, I hooked up a recording voltmeter to the alternator output for a week. Amazing spikes and gaps in voltage. New alternator, same result. Done with this, having had only minor problems with my 360, sold the 488. Porsche GT3 now.

 

If the car suddenly just died while waiting to make a turn, how would a "jump" help? A jump will only get it started again, but it was running before it shut down, so unless I'm missing something, not sure how that would help. As I posted earlier, I had a battery issue as well, but did not experience the sudden shut down problem a couple of owners have reported. In the end, Ferrari (Italy) told my dealer to replace the battery (with the standard battery because under warranty), and so far no problems. My dealer indicated a few owners have switched to an Interstate battery claiming it holds up better than the standard, and there's always Ray's solution as well, may try one of those if happens again.

I'm always on the charger when parked at home, or overnight when power is available, but I question if the charger is enough in these cars. I also think it can be reasonably argued that driving long distances may not alone be enough to maintain power in these standard batteries, they don't seem to hold charges well after a few months.

Jim

 

I wish Ferrari would investigate and maybe figure out a way to dumb down the parasitic draw on the car’s battery from the electrical systems via recall. Or maybe a big master disconnect switch. This seems to be a serious serious issue affecting some owners at an unknown scale, that I hope Ferrari is aware of

I was going to say would be a good DIY project for out of warranty 458/488s, but I can barely microwave my oatmeal in the mornings let alone rip open an ECU


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Jim, I totally get your point about the battery and jumping; the battery as the issue makes no sense; however, because it was 8:30 pm at night by the time the truck got the 488 to the tow yard, they kept it overnight there and delivered it to Ferrari the next morning. I called the dealer Friday morning, they said "the car is on a charger". I said, "the battery makes no sense, since I keep it on the tender (always when parked)and I drive it. The tender has always been green and never indicated a battery problem ". I saw no warning lights prior to the shutdown. I called back later and they said , "the car started and appears normal, so they will change out the battery and put an Optima Yellow or Interstate battery, whatever I prefer" .
So, not that that makes sense, it is what it is and had I been able to jump start the car (a DOT truck stayed with me the entire 4.25 hours as I was in a very dangerous situation with tons of holiday traffic - he had jump capability), I could have at least moved it to a safer location.
So, back to my original questions:
1) Anyone know how to to safely access the battery terminals for a jump w/o damaging the car?
2) Does anyone know an aftermarket solution to putting a positive post in the engine bay (like my 355 had 20 years ago) for emergency jumping?
3) I've had good luck with Optima batteries in cars but someone in a post said that Optima had a new owner and quality had deteriorated. So thoughts on Interstate vs. Optima as a replacement?
This is a Holiday weekend, of course, so my car will be at Ferrari for awhile, I'm guessing. Anyone's thoughts re: these 3 questions will be appreciated.

 

Is there a jump post behind the drivers seat under the firewall cover area similar to the 360 ?

 

Not aware of it.....nothing in the manual....

 

See if there is a panel behind the drivers seat that can be taken off. There may be something there. But I really don’t know. My newest Ferrari is a CS which does have this jump point.

 

Assuming that the problem has been fixed by now, is it a buy? First time buyer here.

 

I would not make that assumption, as I am quite sure it has not been fixed, and that Ferrari have no idea what is causing it. Anecdotally it does not seem to be a widespread problem, so if a car you're looking at has not experienced any brake problems in its history it's probably OK. If you mean you ran across my old car for sale, I wouldn't drive it much less buy it.