Non Hybrid Stradale | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Non Hybrid Stradale

Discussion in 'SF90 Stradale' started by SoCal to az, May 30, 2019.

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  1. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    Actually, AWD excels in cornering/exit-speed much more than straight-line performance ... especially with electronically-controlled torque vectoring.
     
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  2. U-Boat Commander

    U-Boat Commander Formula 3
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    Perhaps with torque vectoring. But then you need to add 1000 lbs to a car to get that. It simply does not compute with today's technology, unless you're talking about a $100M system like on a Porsche 919 or a fully EV vehicle.
     
  3. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    Ferrari have developed a very clever torque vectoring system using all four wheels. They claim it has the effect of knocking 200kg off the car in terms of cornering attitude/ability. It certainly seemed quite impressive from the animations they displayed at Fiorano. As with the turbo 488/Pista/F8 engine, they turned a negative into a positive. They have worked so hard on finding new technology possibilities with this hybrid and looked for the opportunities it brings, so, no, I don’t think the car without the hybrid would be the same thing, or faster, at all.

    It will be interesting to see if the driving experience matches what they claim. They are usually worthy of a bit of trust in that area.
     
  4. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

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    I’m surprised that so few people are excited about the opportunity to own a Ferrari that offers a fresh powertrain configuration and a unique driving experience. I feel like we’ve hit ‘peak ICE’ and look forward to watching these new systems improve over time.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  5. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    The hybrid system adds 550 pounds (according to original post), not 1000 pounds. And for that 550 pounds, you get:

    More power-per-pound than ICE gives you
    All-wheel drive
    ... plus intelligent torque vectoring
     
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  6. U-Boat Commander

    U-Boat Commander Formula 3
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    The hybrid system adds 550 lbs. How much more is added to the drivetrain to achieve AWD? How much more was added to the frame and body components to accommodate all the new gizmos?
     
  7. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    The weight of the hybrid system (595 pounds, actually) includes the weight of the front motors (as i understand it).
     
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  8. gt_lusso

    gt_lusso Karting

    Oct 24, 2013
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    Then you're going to love the new V6 that's coming soon :)
     
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  9. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
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    part of the appeal is the 'hot lap' function which although is essentially useless, allows them to lap around the test track faster than the la ferrari
     
  10. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
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    doesn't torque vectoring (TV) for the front tires (at least) require the electric motors to be functional? and, on track, you might get a few laps before the battery power is exhausted and no more TV ? if so, sounds like is of questionable value, and, don't the front electric motors shut down after 220kph or so, regardless of available battery power?

    I think the key understanding here is the hybrid drivetrain is presumed to really be present to meet emissions testing (RDE/WLTP) and anything beyond is gravy...
     
  11. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    Yes, of course, battery charge is needed for all 3 electric motors.

    But ... let's say you run 2~3 laps and discharge the battery (note: it's got healthy storage capacity at 7.9kWh ... more than 3x LaFerrari, i think). So, you take a "recharge lap" and hit it hard again :) Still sounds like fun to me!

    By the way ... one (of many) incredible things about the new NSX, is how fast it will re-charge the battery in race mode! By keeping ICE rpm's a bit higher (plus some other tricks), the NSX battery recharge rate is impressive. Let's hope we can expect the same, or better, from Ferrari :)
     
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  12. SmokinV10

    SmokinV10 Karting

    Oct 19, 2017
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    and its usable for one lap. IMHO the key innovations are not the hybrid drive, but rather the 8 speed gearbox. The new SF90 is marginally faster than a 720. Makes similar power as a senna. Imagine if it was as light as a senna, but with a better gearbox. Id argue you'd still see the 0-60 in 2.5 and youd have 550lbs less to keep you from stopping and 550lbs less to carry into and out of corners

    Does anyone here truly think this car would be hybrid if it wasnt for upcoming EU and chinese regulations? I think Lamborghini is on record for saying they would always rather remove 100lbs than add 20hp (or something along those lines). McLaren has also said that there is most definitely a compromise between weight gain and power.
     
  13. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    You're not carrying dead weight. You're carrying 500 pounds that gives you more than 200 hp ... for 2 or 3 laps, most likely (given the 7.9kWh storage), until you re-charge over the next re-charge lap. And, in addition to that hp boost, you get two front wheels powered & vectored for blistering exit speed on corners.

    Not necessarily a bad trade-off, in my view!
    Extra weight, with nothing added, is of course bad. Acceleration, braking, cornering ... extra weight, by itself, hurts.

    But Ferrari didn't add 500 lbs of lead to the car ;)
     
  14. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    I think you're being optimistic on the weight. Some people are saying actual weight is 3800 lbs.

    Ferrari could not have given you 768 hp with 3000 lbs because we already know the Pista can't even get anywhere near that weight and this car isn't actually much of a lightweight construction to begin with. Without the hybrid, you'd just have an F8.
     
  15. MassAppeal

    MassAppeal Karting

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    Outside of the Ferrari name, the Mclaren 720S is still special in its own right. It’s a game changer, not quite like the F1 was, but it’s up there. One that made Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche wake up and take notice. The aero game was taken to another level. And Ferrari can’t have companies like Mclaren and Lamborghini stealing it’s thunder, it makes the company look complacent.

    Outside of that, the more I look at the “Hammerhead”, the more I like it. I see details that didn’t see before.
     
  16. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
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    IMO I honestly believe that given the F8 and Pista have the same engine the F8 should have the engine it has but the Pista should have received the 4 litre from the SF90

    To distinguish the two and the higher price

    The little brother will be the issue

    Where will it be with regards to power ?

    It has to be above the F8 but if it’s over the Pista it will be getting close to the SF90 which will beg the question why buy a SF90? Basically similar to the F8 - Pista situation
     
  17. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Good question from OP and good arguments on both sides.

    One thing not mentioned that was used on the LaF to justify electrification is that the engine was probably tuned for more high RPM power by sacrificing low RPM performance which would not be acceptable without the electric motors compensating for lack of torque.
     
  18. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

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    You guys have to realize hybrid technology is used just because of regulations and truly is just a stepping stone to full electric.

    Most don’t know that nothing is more efficient than an electric engine that uses 95/98% of the energy it receives for movement while a VERY EFFICIENT ICE engine uses 35% of the energy for movement.

    Also electric engines don’t need maintenance! I have seen electric engines in hard industries like cement/chemical factories without any lubrication and no bearing change in 20 years.
    Always working 24 hours a day/365 days a year.
    No wonder that the only thing you change in a modern tesla is the tires.

    Food for thought: when we go all electric all car manufacturers will have more or less the same supplier! Ferrari doesn’t know how to make these engines so they will just buy them from the same place VW and PSA will.
    The only thing they can bring to the table is aero and weight reduction.
    Funny isn’t it?!

    All is better just the sound..... oh 458 Spider...
     
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  19. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Agree....take the Speciale, stretch it a few inches, lower it an inch, widen it an inch, add latest brakes and electronics, and drop in V12 out of 812 SF....perfection!
     
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  20. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    The driver has choices. One can either select Qualifying Mode for 1-2 hot laps, or keep it in a lesser mode and lap slower but consistently, as the ICE recharges the batteries. It's not as bad as you make it sound.
     
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  21. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    The SF90 is A LOT quicker than the 720. The 720 is on a par with the Pista.
     
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  22. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    Recharging rate will be key. The NSX is impressive as you say, but the SF90's battery is six times the size, so it would be interesting to see how long it takes after running the battery to zero in Qualify mode. With an empty battery, 1.8 tonnes/no AWD/only the V8 is not an enticing prospect on a track.
     
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  23. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    The ICE has many years of life left.
     
  24. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

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    I still have hope of great performance and sound with electric turbos...
    Ferrari is the leader in this field I think.
     
  25. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    Exactly. How can the so called "LB" be meaningfully inferior to this? Giving it 100hp less isn't going to make a material difference. The difference between 100hp and 200hp is significant. The difference between 1000 hp and 900 hp is much less so.

    If the LB gets a clean sheet design, it will arguably be the one to have, even if performance is marginally lower. It will be $200K cheaper and for all intents and purposes be the same real world performance. SF90 becomes a hard sell if that happens.
     

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