SF90 vs. Tesla Roadster | FerrariChat

SF90 vs. Tesla Roadster

Discussion in 'SF90 Stradale' started by TheBigEasy, May 30, 2019.

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  1. TheBigEasy

    TheBigEasy F1 World Champ
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    Jun 21, 2005
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    I still don't understand the point of a 'hybrid' supercar.

    I'd rather have something focused on 100% internal combustion or 100% electric.

    SF90 looks great though.... front-end is much better than the LaFerrari... that rear window seems a little out of proportion though (I'd have to see in real life).

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  2. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
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    The Tesla Roadster is still just a concept at this point. Its quite likely not coming for another couple of years, so arguing specs or performance is silly right now. The roadster is also a 2+2 and likely half the price so its not really in the same market.

    I think it looks a helluva alot better than the SF90 though, and I am not a fan of the hybrid system. Ferrari seems to have just thrown everything at the SF90 from the looks to the steering wheel to the drivetrain. I much perfer a simple design that works well than the extremely busy and over complicated way Ferrari seems to be going.

    I do feel like a supercar that doesn't make any noise is kinda missing the point though.
     
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  3. stavura

    stavura Formula 3

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    Tesla Roadster.......... MEH!!
     
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  4. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Veteran
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    Tesla won’t be in business to build that car. Pie in the sky.
     
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  5. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    May 1, 2004
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    The Tesla Roadster is nothing special to look at for sure, the SF90 Stradale continues the passion that is Ferrari. Plenty of folks will buy both for the image that each portrays, I am just not a fan of the Tesla.
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    All you need to know about the Tesla is ''space thrusters''.

    That option is as likely as that car being build.
     
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  7. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
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    Tesla roadster will only end up in a museum off oddities next to a Sinclair C5.

    Try and find a replacement for the battery in 20 years time!
     
  8. TopspeedPT

    TopspeedPT Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2012
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    Tesla Roadster was a bait so they could get more pre-orders $$$ and hype about Tesla cars.

    S3XY and truck are "done" now. I bet Elon Musk will anounce another 3 new future models to get more $$$ from pre-orders and then underdeliver as usual.
    I doubt Tesla Roadster will ever see the day light or have those insane figures.

    Rimac will show Tesla how its done.
     
  9. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    To be fair, even if you wanted to actually have a Roadster 2.0 in 20 years, it's quite possible that the car would actually be much better by then.

    The wonderful thing about EVs is that they simply need electricity. Not a certain type of electricity, just electricity. It doesn't need the same batteries, but just batteries in general. Notice how the Roadster 1.0 has a better, modern battery pack available nowadays directly from Tesla.

    An ICE will always need a very specific ICE and it will never get any better. An EV can theoretically get lighter, more power, more efficient, etc.

    Servicing an EV in the near future may be similar to getting new tires now -- they just need to fit, they don't need to be the same rubber and they're likely better.
     
  10. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2010
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    That was said about the original Roadster, the S, the X and the 3. So far the naysayers are 0-4. It won't be when Elon says its coming, and who knows if it will meet those specs, but I'd be pretty confident that it will come out in 2022 or so.
     
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  11. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Sep 12, 2004
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    Was thinking the same thing - what's the point of the ICE except admitting you don't have a better all-electric design available.

    Not that I'm a fan of electric cars but the knock against electric cars was weight and range and I'm not sure the SF90 has or will have an advantage over the Tesla (albeit concept) on those two areas.

    I still like the styling of the Ferrari over the generic shape of the Tesla (it's like all the other Teslas).

    As an aside, I see that Lotus will introduce an all-electric performance car soon. Will be interesting to compare that to the SF90.
     
  12. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    So let me get this straight the guys in a Tent have built a imaginary sports car that somehow can be compared to a real life SF90 :confused:
     
  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    almost. They rendered a car and got fools to pay 250K deposits (good luck getting it back btw), attached some imaginary specs to it in a hope to pump the stock. It worked for a while. Also. Space thrusters, bro.
     
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  14. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Karting

    Jun 16, 2013
    92

    Sorry, that sounds like a collection of gross oversimplifications.

    "Not a certain type of electricity, just electricity", really? Which voltage, amperage, frequency, waveform, power quality...?

    Gasoline on the other hand is really just gasoline... Internal combustion engines are nicely self contained units, that's why crate engines are so popular. As long as you supply the engine with air and fuel, keep it cool and the transmission holds up, you're all right.


    I don't see the difference between the Tesla Roadster battery upgrade and, say, fitting a factory turbocharger kit.

    And no, electric car upgrades are not like changing tires. If anything, the way in which electric drivetrains are made of heavily interconnected components, are distributed around the car, and relying solely on electronics for control, makes upgrades much harder than on conventional vehicles.

    For example the aforementioned Tesla battery upgrade—a simple capacity increase—required new bespoke power electronics, and cost a third of the original price. Go figure what it would take to increase power.
     
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  15. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

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    An ICE can be fixed in any decent machine shop, anything can be refabricated etc...just look what's happening to GTO engine parts currently.

    Near term, i.e. 5-10 years I agree, you could replace the batteries, wouldn't want to see the bill though!

    Longer-term I seriously doubt and I wouldn't put my money on the fact that you could replace the battery pack in an electric car in 20 years, let alone 40 years. Different sizes, configurations, specifications etc etc etc. Somebody might make you one, but the car certainly wont be worth the cost of doing so.

    Besides, nobody that I know other than the Citroen CEO has had a sensible conversation about the true environmental cost of electric vehicles. Fine, lest replace the batteries, as they have a finite life as we all know. So lets strip mine some more cobalt from Africa, and lithium from China...and the old battery...hmmm!! (Wont matter for you guys in the US as the tariffs on China goods will be so prohibitive you wont be able to afford batteries anyway LOL)
     
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  16. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    The battery pack is only $29K installed, it's super low production (only a few a month), and they weren't even having this in mind when the designed the car. It was just a small "appreciation" project. Surely they could do a hell of a lot better if they designed the car to be upgraded in the first place or actually made it a line of business.

    Even if the upgrade isn't a power increase, it's a slight increase in weight for a massive 35% increase in range. That means they could likely have kept range the same and saw a massive decrease in weight -- hence it would have even better performance.

    And this is still in the infancy of EVs. 35% increase in range on a 10 year old EV for less than the cost of a few CF options on a Ferrari...
     
  17. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

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    I'll get my daughter to get her crayons out and do some pics...you do the marketing...we will both retire to the Caribbean sipping something with lots of rum in it!!!! (Fools and their money.....!)
     
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  18. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    I can easily find a battery for my 50 year old E-Type, thus I kind of disagree with this line of argument.
     
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  19. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Sounds like a plan!
     
  20. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    You're making the assumption that:

    A) That manufacturers won't undertake the work necessary or plan for it in development.
    B) It won't be affordable.

    To (A), I'd say that Ferrari has a program exactly for this reason. So long is there is demand for parts for old Ferraris, they will supply them. Honda might not care about doing it for a Civic, but exotic companies will. I mean, I can't see any reason why you'd want to buy parts for a 2000 360 Modena from Ferrari, sounds like a huge waste of money preserving that car, but Ferrari still sells parts and people are still buying them...

    As for (B), I think you're underestimating the improvements that battery technology and production will see, and this become less important given the extreme costs of exotics in the first place. It will probably be cheaper to replace a battery pack in 20 years than it will be to replace a DCT on a 458.

    I don't want to get into an environmental argument. I know where I stand and there is no changing anyone's mind on the "green-ness" of EVs.
     
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  21. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Hey at least all that cobalt keeps the kids employed in Africa! And the Chinese miners won't have to do all that much financial planning for the future.

    We keep being told all the good points about EV but those pushing this tech conveniently forget about all the bad stuff. Same with diesel all those years ago....we kept being told how we're all supposed to drive diesels. They made them cheaper to buy and own. Try having one now, just another expensive paperweight! The dumb****s in government don't have an answer for that, suddenly!

    About the subject of supercars and EV....I honestly do not understand why small manufacturers like Ferrari would ever be forced to make an EV, or even submit to strict co2 levels. Typically speaking, a Ferrari does far fewer miles than the average car. But even if they don't, a Ferrari's end of life is virtually endless. The only time a Ferrari really ends on the scrapyard is after a write off....and even then most parts are recovered and continue to live on in other Ferraris. I had this discussion the other day with some friends, and we assumed the average car has around 15 years lifespan before it's crushed (not CRASHED) and it has to be made into a whole new car again, an energy intensive move. Shockingly, according to figures we found later, the average lifespan of a normal car was around HALF that!

    Yet the green lobbyist idiots stick their nose up at our cars? When they drive their stupid ****ing EV's and buy new ones when theirs expires?
     
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  22. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    #22 noone1, Jun 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
    It may make sense logically, but then it also makes sense logically to give rich people speeding tickets relative to their income/net worth.

    The reason is simple: You shouldn't make laws that are different for rich and poor people.

    But also there is nothing stopping Ferrari owners from driving 100K miles just like a Civic. Ferrari needs to abide by emissions laws if they are going to make cars that can in theory be used like any other car. This forum is full of people complaining about garage queens and that they are meant to be driven, so it would be quite hypocritical to claim they should be rewarded for not being used...
     
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  23. kbaillie

    kbaillie Karting

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    #23 kbaillie, Jun 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
    I put my deposit down for the first Model S when everyone said it wouldn’t ever ship. It arrived in my driveway just fine. The Model X was announced, and everyone again said it would never see the light of day; that it was too complicated. Fast forward to today and, after 2.5 years of ownership, my wife’s X not only exists, but has been bulletproof. Same story with the Model 3: “Tesla will die before its ever made.” Lo and behold, it too is sitting in my driveway and, 15k miles later, has proven to be reliable and a great commuter. So, I can only chuckle re: the “it’ll never happen” talk about the Tesla Roadster and, to be honest, am surprised to see that kind of baseless, unproductive sludge being thrown around amongst this smart, car-loving crowd. Makes me kinda sad, actually.

    As for the virtues of EVs vs ICEs: my second Model S was faster 0-60 than my Ferrari 458 Spider is. My Model 3 with its direct-drive transmission and ample torque down low is, in all practical terms, superior to damn near any ICE for zipping around town.

    Does any of that mean that I feel my Teslas are *better* than my 458? Heck no! They’re just great at different things, and serve unique purposes in my driving regimen.

    After having daily driven EVs for the past ~6 years, and occasionally being disappointed in situations where the 458 can’t hang with my Model 3, I can totally see how the instant torque of an electric motor supplementing an ICE would yield the best of both worlds for many people. On the other hand, having raced Spec Miatas for many years, I totally get how light weight (those cars were 2300lbs wet with driver) is fun, and I can relate to those who want that instead.

    What I DON’T understand is how all of these things have to be mutually exclusive. Can’t they all just live together, and serve different purposes? We’re all car lovers, last I checked. In what world is having more options a bad thing for any of us?!?


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  24. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Veteran
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    #24 buddyg, Jun 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
    Put your head in the sand if you want to but, how long will investors continue to pour money in a company that has never made a dime of profit since inception? Especially when it doesn’t look like that will change anytime soon.

    When Tesla was the only EV manufacturer it made some sense but now that every major auto maker is in the game Tesla is screwed. Just my opinion of course.

    http://fortune.com/2019/05/20/tesla-stock-drop-code-red/
    https://www.tflcar.com/2019/04/is-tesla-in-trouble-company-posts-700-million-loss-in-the-first-quarter-of-2019/
     
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  25. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    Possibly for a very, very long time. That said, no major non-Chinese manufacturer has been able to move any meaningful amount of EVs no matter how hard they try. Audi isn't even letting dealers stock e-trons. Until another company proves they can actually successfully sell them, I'd say Tesla has plenty of life left in them.
     
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