Honestly I think it’s all limited production rather than limited editions (1 of xxx). I got that vibe talking to Ferrari folks last year when they introduced the limited production Pista Spider at Pebble Beach (rather than a limited edition Pista Aperta). IMO limited editions will be Icona and LaFerrari type cars from here on out.
day355 said：Real Ferrari for 2020 March, organic and pure...Not like this joke NA special version He says 2020 twice more on page 10 I believe it's 812VS。 Testarosa icona should appear in a few months.
Boy, opinions change fast on this board. I remember all the consternation about the turbos on the 488 when it was announced. Sound was the most important aspect for many, the extra speed was not that big of a deal. Now the 812 is “old news” due to new turbos and speed. Go figure.
Not wanting to defend TM in any way (as an owner) I have seen the vast majority done very very well, and very few done badly , as today the Ferrari team are much more rigid on what makes a car TM or not and how they are done. I know of 4 TM Lusso cars that sold within 24 hours /pre sold when coming to the market, as they are very unique and pretty rare (a few hundred a year). Many want something more than standard and something different. Some of the 70th cars were pushing it though, particularly on the Cali T that was being replaced and some of the liveries were tough love. But there are simply stunning TM cars out there, a number of TDF in particular that are simply incredible. As for 812 selling not selling, anything reasonable miles with good spec/colours does move well, but it is a V12 production Ferrari, it will lose money. Maybe people got confused and thought every new Ferrari is a great investment. They are not, they get used, get old, depreciate, find their level, then stall . Maybe sometimes increase again in value (575/599) . UK sales volumes pretty well same as F12 ramp up, it will top out at similar numbers too after 3 years. The hard sell cars are the Lusso until it loses a third, and the Cali , due to shear volumes sold. Maybe all these new cars has led to buyer fatigue .
Tailor Made is only as good as the owner. One of the over riding pieces of advice I was given before heading in was that even if you can do it doesn't mean you should.
All of us here, I’m sure, would love to get our hands on the 812 TDF version, but very few of us will. That’s Ferrari reality. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What are the odds that the 812 VS will not sound as good as today's base 812 due to the addition of gas particulate filters?
Most de-catted systems I've heard are far too loud. I'd be happy if the VS sounds identical to my 812 but am concerned it may end up being be a step backwards due to the GPF's.
you cannot "de-gpf" a gpf, unless you reprogram the ECU (and void warranty,etc), the gpf is much more involving than a catalytic converter, and the gpf will change the exhaust note, I'm sure Ferrari will work to make it sound great, we should get our "first listen" to a (regular) 812 + gpf by the end of the year...that should 'tell us' what it will sound like.. here's a picture of the gpfs on the SF90: Image Unavailable, Please Login GPFs displace as much volume as the engine, so, for the 6.5L V12, the GPFs will be about 50% larger than shown above on the SF90 (4.0L engine) (one per exhaust channel) also, for any and all Ferrari MY2020 and later production, expect it to have automatic emergency braking (for both forward and rearward travel directions) (perhaps will be disabled in CT off mode, hope so), radar for dynamic cruise control, and "advanced front camera" whatever that is I don't know
It is a good point.If lucky enough to get an 812 VS I had intended trading 812 but am now doing the man maths around keeping both. The 812 engine noise is just the best.
OK, thanks for clarifying RE: GPF. Just to confirm, the 812 doesn't have GPFs but an 812 Aperta being delivered in say 2020 / 2021 would have these, because emissions regulations are becoming tougher....correct? I guess if that is the case in a way it's also a good thing; not for the noise it makes, but in terms of practicality. I can see a scenario whereby large, N/A engine cars (without GPF) are banned from cities (or more). It is already happening in London - not a ban, but a daily tax on more polluting cars recently introduced (called ULEZ). No one buying an 812 gives a f*** about a small daily charge.... but a ban would be more of an issue...!
As an aside it is amazing how this thread has taken off following the introduction of the SF90 Stradale !!!
Maybe that's because, at least for some of us, the 812 VS represents our last/only hope of a new Ferrari that may actually get us really excited.
I have been very keen on the idea of a 812 Aperta (spider).. but didn't realise until now it will likely have Gasoline Particle Filters. If it ruins the exhaust note of the N/A V12, then there is no point in buying the car for me - it's one of the main attractions. I'm planning to call my dealer and ask, although I suspect they won't say much until the details of the convertible are announced in Sept '19... anyone have any ideas about whether the (GPF) is likely to be required in Europe for this car? What is the likely impact on exhaust note?? Thanks!
Nobody has talked about it much yet, but skipping to 2:15 mark in this video, regarding Audi R8 V10, the statement is made: "While it still retains that characteristic V10 engine tone, it's not quite as aggressive and sharp as it used to be in the previous car.... Now there's a reason for that, and it's not actually Audi's fault. Governed by the powers that be, the rules and regulations which are applied to manufacturers these days have required across the board every manufacturer to apply a (gasoline) particulate filter, which has ultimately all to do with emissions, and as a result, it has applied a slightly muffled effect to the exhaust character." "It's not quite as raw and raspy as the previous generation car." No matter what, routing the exhaust through the honeycomb structure of GPF is going to take away sound... And unless Ferrari are prepared to pay fines, it seems all but certain that model year 2020 812 (whether SF, VS, or Spyder format) will get a GPF.
Agreed but A V12 will always sing more vocally than a turbo V8, particulate filters or not. I suppose the obvious question is why not simply just buy the car and remove said filters? Ultimately these filters will be a service item, more so in cars that do limited millage in an urban environment.
As previously (and accurately) iterated by JTSE30, removing and programmatically disabling GPF's will be far more difficult than doing same with typical catalytic converter. Not to mention that, doing so, would completely void warranty.
The old adage "if there is a will there is a way" applies here I think. Granted warranty will be an issue but post warranty. I think these filters will be a big problem in developing markets where fuel quality is often poor and thus the lifespan of said filters will be dramatically shortened. Back to the VS, I think it will still sound superb irrespective.
You can't buy your way out of this problem by paying a fine. No GPF then no registration of the car in the EU is my understanding. The only exception might be other markets where the GPF is not required. If Ferrari builds a 'rest of the world' version exhaust without GPF then this feature would not detract from that motor sound. That is an expensive proposition as the engine spec reflects the presence of the GPF. Australia is said to be going without the GPF so there may be an opening for the other exhaust system to be designed. Some manufacturers are discontinuing models early that don't comply with the GPF rule deadline.
US does NOT. That said, will Ferrari have appetite for building two different spec cars (one with, one without)?
