911 (Type 964): Turbo, Carrera RS, Leichtbau, and more | Page 3 | FerrariChat

911 (Type 964): Turbo, Carrera RS, Leichtbau, and more

Discussion in 'Porsche' started by Sterling Sackey, Mar 3, 2019.

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  1. Qksilver

    Qksilver F1 Rookie
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    Feb 11, 2005
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    Would love to see a 996 Turbo thread.
     
  2. Sterling Sackey

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    I think I have enough going, you should do one! :)
     
  3. Qksilver

    Qksilver F1 Rookie
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    Too much of a responsibility to do correctly - plus you and your father already have like 12 of these threads, so what's one more? :)
     
  4. Island Time

    Island Time F1 World Champ
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    #56 Island Time, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  5. Bluebottle

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  6. Andial

    Andial Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2016
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    It may seem steep to you but the fact it sold means that someone wanted it for that price.
     
  7. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Very true. I guess I can't get used to just how valuable our cars are now after so many years of being told that the 964 is the poor relation.
     
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  8. Sterling Sackey

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    The corresponding review:

    1994 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.6

    The people's Turbo.
    FRANK MARKUS
    MAY 1, 1993


    News item:
    On February 12 in France, Porsche unveiled the highest-performance regular-production car ever to be offered for sale in America: the 1994 911 Turbo 3.6. Still rear engined, still rear drive, it develops an astounding 355 horsepower and 384 pound-feet of torque.

    Upon reading the above, Ralph Nader must be itching to write the sequel to Unsafe at Any Speed. After all, 911 Turbos were always prone to sudden oversteer when their afterburner-like turbo boost kicked in. And now there's more power? It's clear corporate negligence and irresponsibility. Tens of innocent people will surely spin, crash, and burn at the helm of this deathtrap. By programming his word processor to replace "Chevrolet Corvair" with "Porsche Turbo" and "swing-axle jacking" with "power-on oversteer," the sequel would be half-written and the evil nature of rear-engined cars would be confirmed once and for all. Nader might even persuade one of those helpful syndicated TV "news" shows to produce one of their famous docu-dramatizations to coincide with the book release (don't assume anyone else has learned NBC's lesson).

    Shut off the computer, Ralph. Recall the camera crew, "Dateline." The real news is that the new, more powerful car is easier and more predictable to drive aggressively than any recent 911 Turbo. One no longer needs to have graduated from the Hans Stuck opposite-lock academy to explore the full potential of this car's awesome power.

    So how did Porsche make all these extra horses so easy to ride? By employing low-end torque to fill in the previously spiked power curve, that's how. As might be deduced from the name (now rendered in retro chrome script on the engine cover), the new car's extra 40 horsepower and 52 pound-feet of torque were achieved primarily by sliding out last year's 3.3-liter engine and slipping in the newer 3.6-liter one that has powered naturally aspirated Carreras since 1989. Turbos and Carreras now share crankshafts, connecting rods, crankcases, and cylinder jugs. New pistons and cams provide the Turbo with a 7.5:1 compression ratio. (Each cylinder still breathes through only two valves, as Porsche is unable to air-cool a four-valve-per-cylinder head sufficiently.)

    The bigger block's three millimeters of added bore combine with cams and a fuel-injection system both optimized for greater torque to make last year's peak torque of 332 pound-feet available at 2400 rpm. As boost pressure builds in the iron lung, the torque increases steadily to its new peak of 384 pound-feet at 4200 rpm.

    Full boost is available at lower revs, too. The same KKK turbocharger and all its related plumbing, including the whale-tail-mounted intercooler, are carried over from last year's 911 Turbo (not the limited-production Turbo S2 we reported on in February), but recalibration increases maximum boost to 13.1 psi. An extra 300cc of exhaust gas blowing on the same impeller spools it up at lower revs, making full boost available at 3500 rpm.

    The result is a seamless torrent of predictable, controllable acceleration. If the old car's power came on like the cannons in the William Tell Overture—late, and all of a sudden—then the new one feels more like a Wagner crescendo.

    And sweet crescendos these are. Launch it hard (5500 revs seems to suit the weight distribution, huge rear tires, and sturdy drivetrain) and 4.0 seconds later you're midway through the second banshee chorus, hurtling along at 60 mph.

    That leaves every other U.S.-legal production car we've tested sucking the Porsche's catalyzed wake. Just after your third slick gear change, the quarter-mile flashes by in 12.4 seconds at 114 mph. Both times are nearly half a second quicker than those of last year's 911 Turbo.

    Specifications
    PRICE AS TESTED: $109,644

    ENGINE TYPE: turbocharged and intercooled flat-6, aluminum block and heads, port fuel injection

    Displacement: 220 cu in, 3600cc
    Power: 355 hp @ 5500 rpm
    Torque: 384 lb-ft @ 4200 rpm

    TRANSMISSION: 5-speed manual

    DIMENSIONS:
    Wheelbase: 89.4 in
    Length: 168.3 in
    Width: 69.9 in Height: 51.6 in
    Curb weight (mfr's est): 3300 lb

    C/D TEST RESULTS:
    Zero to 60 mph: 4.0 sec
    Zero to 100 mph: 9.2 sec
    Zero to 110 mph: 11.5 sec
    Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.2 sec
    Top gear, 30-50 mph: 9.5 sec
    Top gear, 50-70 mph: 7.7 sec
    Standing ¼-mile: 12.4 sec @ 114 mph
    Top speed (mfr's est): 174 mph
    Braking, 70-0 mph: 157 ft

    FUEL ECONOMY:
    EPA city/highway: 13/21 mpg
     
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  9. Sterling Sackey

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  10. Sterling Sackey

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    A 964 Carrera RS taken racing in Thailand back when these cars were much newer.

    Interesting finding on the 964 RS - we all know these cars were oft-derided when new for being overly stiff from the factory (although, that was sort-of the point being a track-focused package). However, the dampers were reportedly revised for the ultra-rare 964 Carrera RS 3.8, and subsequently these same dampers became available via Porsche for consumption for 964 Carrera RS 3.6 owners as the go-to replacement for the original items, which improved the ride considerably.

    This is just what I've heard - if anybody knows the full story on this, please feel free to share!

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  11. Sterling Sackey

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    The much-discussed RS America.

    This is actually a really cool variant if you ask me, and a great way to own a 964 sans power-steering, with factory M030 sport suspension, and with a much more sporty interior than the average USA-delivered 964.

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  12. slm

    slm F1 Rookie
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  13. Sterling Sackey

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    Yep, they could have come away better with our offer, and not been sitting on an unrealized sale for 9 months or so.

    Unfortunately former damage is often left unreported on auction write-ups, much less paintwork of which I recall this car had some on the rear.
     
  14. slm

    slm F1 Rookie
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    After paying auction fees, owner came out at or below market for an average car.
     
  15. Sterling Sackey

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    Yep. These big auctions are rarely rewarding to sellers, the high fees are just a total killer in terms of coming away well.

    Buyers now are quite savvy versus a few years ago, and aren't going to overpay just because of the glamour of the auction house event.
     
  16. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    My dad had a Turbo 3.3 when I was a kid, just like the one in the video with the japanese driver. I loved that car. He traded it for a 993, which I also liked but never as much as the Turbo. I'm curious, what's the story with the Turbo 3.3? I know it was an interim sort of car, but did it have any unique features besides the skin, compared to predecessors? What are the main changes to the 3.6?
     
  17. Sterling Sackey

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    Yes, the primary difference to note is it benefitted from the hugely revised rear suspension design that applied to all 964 cars.

    The 3.3-liter engine was carried over from the 930 with minor modifications because the turbocharged version of the new M64 3.6 was not ready in time.

    For some reason this story captivates Porsche enthusiasts, but the reality is many Porsches (and sports cars overall) have gone into their next generation using the same engine from the previous car, slightly evolved. With cars in general, powertrains and chassis are quite often not developed with the same lifecycle, and therefore a new engine will often come mid-way through the life of a specific chassis.
     

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