812 VS Rumors | Page 18 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    As for MY2020 and beyond 812's...

    If the exhaust on the 812+GPF is too muted and/or there are performance problems with the GPF (to date, no Ferrari has had GPF, upcoming production of all models will include GPF but no 'customer history' as of yet...), if there are problems with the automatic emergency braking (no system to date is 100% perfect on any car) and especially if it cannot be disabled then it may be that pre-MY2020 812's become more valuable...

    One additional thing to consider with the GPF is it does "absorb" power by making it substantially harder for the exhaust to pass, so unless Ferrari raises the power of the V12 by 5% or so the 812 will have less horsepower (i.e. from 789 to 820+ HP), for instance, BMW didn't bother even though their V12 is turbocharged so raising power is easier:

    http://www.driversmagazine.com/bmw-will-retain-bigger-v12-engine-till-2023-thanks-upsurge-demand/
    From article above...
    "The engine now offers 577hp and instead of 602hp."
     
    of2worlds and Bundy like this.
  2. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    GPF: Less power, Less sound. Not much to like about it.

    Oh yeah, it will save the planet, I forgot that benefit.
     
    of2worlds, italiafan, stavura and 5 others like this.
  3. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    I too hate automatic emergency braking; it has deployed on me at times that it was not needed one bit!!! Fortunately though it is defeatable on all cars, so don't worry about it.
    Regarding power, Porsche managed to make more of it despite the introduction of a GPF. BMW was just lazy. Don't worry, Ferrari won't mess things up! ;)
     
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    +1'000'000'000!!

    Marcel Massini
     
  5. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2013
    6,765
    Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    Not to get P&R but GPF saving the planet is such a silly thing.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  6. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Lukeylikey likes this.
  7. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2013
    6,765
    Texas
    Full Name:
    John
    Ahhh. Well at least that makes sense. I love not living in a big city.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  8. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Left out the burning cauldron of constant heat. Run some finite element analyses on materials and systems then increase the heat substantially and watch the time to failure shrink. GPF serves a worse purpose than Start/Stop only much more costly and negative to our industry's future.
     
  9. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    3,493
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Yes, all that plus the gift of added weight. GPF: the gift that just keeps on giving.
     
  10. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Since when is the protection our health useless?
     
  11. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    That's the fallacy, it really does no such thing. It's ultimately about removing independent personal transportation from our lives. Many more lives are saved by completely banning cigarettes, so why doesn't the EU do that? Right, because that's not the point of the GPF and all the other burdensome regulations on automobiles.

    Look at the way the EU is going about this, very abrupt changes with very little notice to the automobile industry.

    If you realize the amount of particulate matter (by weight/volume) emitted by an 812SF it is on the order of 1/1000th of a gram per mile (or 1mg/mile), see page "3 of 4" below, column heading "PM g/mi"

    https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2019/ferrari_pc_a0400098_6d3-6d5_u3-125.pdf

    Euro 6b regulation standard is 4.5mg/mile

    https://www.aecc.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Real-world-emissions-measurements-of-a-GDI-vehicle-without-and-with-GPF.pdf

    I'm sure you realize how infinitesimally small that amount is, correct?

    Well, the EU realizes that too, so, the instead opted for counting of the number of particles (i.e. particle number or PN) and they reduced it by a factor of 10 (or by an order of magnitude), that's what they have done (they do not care about the volume of matter any more, just the number of particles!), plus RDE testing must always pass otherwise a 'stop sale' order will be placed on that particular car model throughout all of the EU.

    When realize what they are doing you realize it has nothing to do with your health at this point, please realize that a car stirs up (even an all electric car) more particulate matter just driving down the road than it is emitting...and yes, there have been mentions of putting a "particulate filter" on brakes!!

    https://www.autoserviceworld.com/products/brake-dust-particulate-filter/

    Plus, when you consider what we are talking about in this thread, an 812VS(or a regular 812 for that matter), total V12 production by Ferrari rarely exceeds 2000 units per year (I think only once has that ever occurred), and these changes in emissions regulations will make zero difference to anyone's overall health.
     
  12. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
    2,374
    Arizona & Kentucky
    Full Name:
    Anir
    Incredibly well said. It’s all about governmental control. They create more problems than they solve.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. JMJ

    JMJ Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    181
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey J
    It’s already the fastest Ferrari other than the hybrid..they’ll slow it down like the speedster, limit production and sell out, creating collectibles for the future
     
  14. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
    517
    California
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Agree 100%!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. KenU

    KenU Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2004
    543
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Nope
     
  16. cesman

    cesman Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 13, 2008
    746
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Craig
    Not sure Ferrari has ever deliberately slowed anything down other than the laws of physics intervening


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    nads likes this.
  17. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 19, 2006
    16,110
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    Why must the US have this GPF nonsense?
    The 812 already runs without it, so why can’t they continue current production for US?
     
    Caeruleus11 and of2worlds like this.
  18. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
    517
    California
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Having seen their production line and the limited number of V12s they produce per day (even less than V8s) it would be difficult to see how they can be producing 2 variants of the 812 without causing noticeable delays. Now that they’re a publicly held company, productions numbers have to increase and alternating 2 variants of the same car for various markets would not make any business sense IMHO.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Dimitar

    Dimitar Formula Junior

    Mar 21, 2007
    678
    Boston
    I was under the impression that a 812 convertable is coming first....not a VS
     
  20. coopersjcw

    coopersjcw Karting

    Apr 29, 2007
    87
    Spain
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Current 812 will not have GPF. Confirmed to me by somebody “special” ;)
    812 spider and VS still unknown.



    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
    Caeruleus11 and of2worlds like this.
  21. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
    1,369
    Full Name:
    T
    Also not for European cars built after 8/31?
     
  22. F12JAJ

    F12JAJ Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2016
    517
    California
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    I agree. Sounds impossible as it would violate 2020 emissions in Europe.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  23. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 1, 2010
    7,779
    around Modena, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alberto Mantovani
    It's an old and long story: please give a look to what happend with 308 GTB/GTS USA model in 1978-82: a ton of anti pollution devices, much more weight, less power and much more headaches. It didn't save anything or anyone 40 years ago and It won't do it today (in my own opinion)

    ciao
     
  24. JMJ

    JMJ Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    181
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey J

    What I mean by slow it down, is that there will be drag due to the open top, as in the speedster. It will loose 1 second on acceleration, but the drop top fun, will ensure a sell out of any an all production. I also feel any GTO or TDF, Aperta model, will only be in coupe form.
     
  25. coopersjcw

    coopersjcw Karting

    Apr 29, 2007
    87
    Spain
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    The information I gathered is for Europe. I presume it will be same in other regions.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     

Share This Page