Do you agree with the steward's decision today? *** Spoilers *** | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Do you agree with the steward's decision today? *** Spoilers ***

Discussion in 'F1' started by Natkingcolebasket69, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    If the stewards are influenced by the popularity of F1, the size of the audience, or outside interests in their decision, we are on moving sands then.

    The rules are supposed to be impartially applied, and penalties inflicted when infringements occur.
     
    ATBNM3 likes this.
  2. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481
    Primum non nocere, in dubio pro reo, etc... If the penalty is not obvious, then they should stay quiet, specially when the result in the outcome is very small and they could piss off a lot of people if they get it wrong.
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Referees are always challenged for unpopular decisions.

    I don't know one sport that escapes that.

    The sporting columns in newspapers are full of controversies.

    Sport officials are loathed just like politicians, for taking décisions we don't like.
     
    ATBNM3 likes this.
  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I think his post race actions where brilliant. Shows he is not a complete robot.
     
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  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Exactly. Hire the same 3, or 5, stewards. Let them all be ex drivers so they've got an idea what happens to a car when it's on the grass (i.e. limited control for one!) and what happens with dirty tyres and so on. For years now we've had inconsistent penalties. Vettel for blocking a driver in Q2 despite the driver going through anyways (without having to have another go IIRC), yet a race before it he gets blocked massively and zero penalties are handed out. There is no consistency. Either they both where penalty worthy, or neither where (considering in both instances both drivers got through without use of extra tyres, seems to me no grid penalty needs to be given. A warning, probably, yes).

    Lewis IN control in Monaco, going off track on the asphalt, made the conscious decision pushing Ricciardo towards the wall so that he had to brake, gets no penalty. Vettel, who made a similar mistake but hit grass, gets a penalty for rejoining the track when he had no control, and no way to avoid having no control, gets a penalty?!
     
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  6. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,481

    Not all sport officials are the same. Pierluigi Collina had not as much trouble as other referees because he was the best in the world and the players knew it: if they got a red card, they knew probably there was a good reason for that.

    In Formula 1 they have a rule book that looks like a encyclophaedia, sensors, TV cameras, and minutes to make a decision while in most sports they have seconds. And still they can´t get it done. With all the stuff they have available, the decisions shouldn´t be so variable and subject to interpetration. And as said above, if you´re not sure, let them race, for Christ sake.
     
    daytona355 and Bas like this.
  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Exactly. And all those TV angles, sensors and whatnot....they do not consider the physics and human element involved in all this! It's all fine and dandy having rules on how to rejoin the track, but if a car is not in control yet (due to the track not permitting for it!), you can't apply a penalty for that. It's a street track with a grass run off. No harm was done in the end (prior to penalty). Lewis didn't attack Vettel. Vettel didn't gain time (in fact, the opposite). Get on with it and race!

    F1 had a once-in-a-blue-moon actual race happening, something F1 fans have been waiting a very long time for, and they shoot themselves in the foot by giving a penalty in these circumstances.
     
    daytona355, Jack-the-lad and Isobel like this.
  8. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    The whole thing is a shame as, to that point, it was a decent race.

    Unfortunately, as we have seen too many times now, when Vettel is put under pressure he makes
    mistakes and this is exactly what happened when Hamilton decided to stop toying with the Ferrari
    and turn the screws a bit.

    Had Vettel not gone off in the first place, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    And, what was Vettel saying on the radio the moment he went off? He started saying something
    that got garbled and the next thing we know, he was bouncing over the grass.

    In the end, Hamilton was toying with the Ferrari and could have passed at will but he laid off knowing
    full well Vettel is a hot head and could very well have blocked causing further stewards decisions.

    Vettel was a great champion when he could start from pole, jump off to a big lead and not be put
    under pressure. But, as we've seen time and time again, when he's put under pressure, his mistakes
    are glaring.

    Was the penalty justified? According to articles pointing out the steward's decision, it was that last
    turn of the wheel to the right after regaining control that cost him as Vettel had to know Hamilton
    was right there. Justified or not, rules is rules. But, in this case the race was ruined and a lot of
    fans left disappointed.

    Maybe, just maybe, this puts the fire under Vettel's and Ferrari's ass they so desperately need.

    BHW
     
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  9. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    I agree with the opinion of the Rosbergs: it doesn't matter if you purposely or not return to track unsafely, it still is a unsafe return, period. Obviously Hamilton is very smart and immediately whined on the radio. Have not Vettel crack under pressure, he wouldn't got that penalty.

     
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  10. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
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    so how many people can wrestle an out of control F1 car safely back on the track?
     
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  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yep, I entirely agree with Nico who said it perfectly.

    Like him, I don't mind to be in the minority on this issue.

    Nico is also right about Vettel as a driver, often cracking Under pressure, and being the architect of his own misfortune.
     
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  12. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    But in Spain where he blocks Lewis who then returns to the track completely out of control was a racing incident, funny that ;)

     
  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Many drivers turn an off-track excursion (like cutting a corner, avoiding a chicane) to their advantage, so going off-limits is already a fault in itself.

    Vettel didn't look out of control to me there, The way he regained the tarmac and moved across to block Hamilton seemed quite opportunistic to me.
     
    ATBNM3 likes this.
  14. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
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    39 minutes agoNEW
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143996/vettel-steering-inputs-key-to-fia-penalty-decision

    A second steering wheel input from Sebastian Vettel after he regained control of his Ferrari Formula 1 car was pivotal in his Canadian Grand Prix penalty, Autosport has learned.

    The Montreal F1 stewards ruled that Vettel had rejoined the track in an unsafe manner following his error at the first chicane with 22 laps to go and forced Lewis Hamilton off the circuit.

    The five-second penalty imposed for the incident meant Vettel lost what would have been his and Ferrari's first win of the 2019 F1 season to Hamilton.

    Vettel was adamant he had done nothing wrong, and said he had been powerless in the situation because his car was out of control after running over the grass.

    But while it is clear from on board footage that Vettel was battling to control his car as he bounced off the grass onto the circuit again, it is understood that the stewards' decision was based on Vettel's actions at the point he had effectively recovered from the incident.

    The stewards examined slow motion footage of Vettel's actions from the moment that he had regained control and started steering his car - and felt the evidence showed that he could have made different choices that would have been within the rules.

    The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track - which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right.

    Shortly after that, Vettel has sorted the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

    But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right, cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.

    The movement to straighten the wheel, which put the Ferrari into the path of Hamilton's Mercedes, is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel.

    The stewards also used an extra CCTV camera view of the incident, which was not broadcast on the international television feed, showing Vettel moving his head and looking in the mirrors to see Hamilton was during the moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.

    On board footage of the Vettel incident also shows his head turning towards the mirrors in the moment when he is drifting out - suggesting he knew where Hamilton was.

    Had Vettel kept his car tight to the left once he had regained control, then there was likely enough room to have allowed Hamilton through on the right - in which case the matter would almost certainly not have been investigated.

    The fact that telemetry data showed Hamilton had to brake to avoid the collision with Vettel indicated how the Mercedes driver was caught out by his rival's actions.

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    Precedent for the decision to punish Vettel for both rejoining the track in an unsafe manner and forcing a rival off the track was made last year in Japan when Max Verstappen was hit with a five-second penalty for a collision with Kimi Raikkonen at the chicane.

    Verstappen had run wide at the chicane on the first lap of the race and rejoined in an aggressive manner, pushing Raikkonen wide on the exit.

    At the time, the late F1 race director Charlie Whiting said: "You are required to rejoin safely and Kimi was there and [Verstappen was] pushing him off the track. So I think that was a fairly straightforward one for the stewards."
     
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  15. ScuderiaRossa

    ScuderiaRossa Formula 3
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    Absurd rulings in an increasingly absurd sport deserve equally—if not greater—absurd reactions. Move any "sign" you feel like moving, skip the podium, and skip a few races too. This morning isn't the first time I wished Enzo was alive and running the company...
     
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  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I am wondering what Enzo Ferrari would make of that.
     
  17. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    You comparison is not right. Where in that incident Rosberg "unsafely returned to the track"? He was already in the track. ;)
     
  18. Alexweav79

    Alexweav79 Formula Junior

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    Vettel should not have gotten a penalty. The stewards messed this up and messed up a decent race.

    Vettel made yet another mistake under pressure. Vettel, don't put the race in the stewards hands by making a mistake. I've said it before, vettel is overrated and won't win a championship in red. The guy has no composure. The sooner he goes away, the better.

    I don't care about the antics after the race, F1 needs some juice because it has been ungodly boring. It was fun to see such raw emotion and I think moving the number plates around was hilarious. F1 stewards has been inconsistent and mostly bad for years and vettel calls them out on it, like mexico a few years back. Good for him.
     
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  19. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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  20. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #120 SPEEDCORE, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    It doesn't matter who was driving Rosberg was giving his opinion for both accidents on his channel. If it was a racing incident for Lewis it's a racing incident for Vettel.

    Also why did you like the post if you don't agree :p Now you're giving me mixed messages :p
     
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  21. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    It's hard to listen to Vettel's radio without thinking back to Baku ...did nothing wrong ,not my fault ,not fair, we was robbed etc etc.Denial ,he just can't accept he screwed up and tries to blame anyone else he feels like .Yes he is not the only one who does this but he just cannot seem to stop making errors under pressure.

    The Penalty (right or wrong) is one thing ,but he is not doing himself any favours after it was announced.
     
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  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Rear end stepping out. No different to Lewis overshooting the hairpin several times by outbraking himself.
     
  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I certainly don't like the way he tries to get public sympathy by getting into a tantrum everytime he is caught.

    That's very immature to say the least. Vettel has to recognise his mistake, like a grown up.

    Yesterday, he messed up and threw another race down the drain for Ferrari.

    How long are they going to cover him? Why do they keep him ? Give him the Guenther Steiner treatment !!!

    Leclerc, who is 10 years younger, looks more adult than Vettel.
     
  24. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Vettel is like a child. The only good part of it is that he's like the child of the Emperor's New Clothes: everybody wanted to tell Charlie to **** off but nobody dared.
     
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  25. ScuderiaRossa

    ScuderiaRossa Formula 3
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    Mar 22, 2001
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    Exactly! The stewards' rational based on "intentional" micro movements of the steering wheel is ridiculous! We're talking about the laws of physics here, and chaos theory as well. Every corner of every lap has infinitesimal potential for variation, even when the driver is "in control"! One of the commentators even theorized that the wake of the car in front of Vettel may have unbalanced his corner entry...
     
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