losing the soul

Selling more cars does not equal "maintaining its soul". There is an intrinsic rawness of an exotic sportscar that gives it its "soul". As you broaden your appeal and take off the "rough edges" to appeal to a mass market, you start losing soul. This is not to say that the cars should be made intentionally crude, but rather not softening the car excessively to satisfy a mass market. This applies to everything, from sound, to styling, to image. This is a pretty simple concept. The hard core "car guy/gal" loves and craves different attributes than the casual brand admirer. To sell more cars, they have to bring in the type of person who owns a ferrari for the sole purpose of parking it at a nightclub, rather than the connoisseur who understands history of the scuderia shields and obsesses over the balance of the car at turn in for the cork screw at Laguna Seca.

Many here have said that Ferrari appears to be reacting to the competition, rather than leading it. Thats part of losing its soul. When i grew up, Ferrari always represented the pinnacle of performance. There were no real challengers. Ferrari as of late has seemingly been on the trailing end of supercar performance. Some of the hard core brand loyalists will argue that the SF90 catapults Ferrari back to the top. Then look at the responses to the styling, weight and powertrain. Producing the Lusso, SUV, and Hybrid vehicles DOES erode its soul. Parting with Pininfarina erodes its soul. A company that has designed 60+ ferraris over the years is part of the Ferrari DNA. Its a bit more than coincidence bias to correlate the lackluster reception to the styling of Ferrari's latest cars 488/F8/SF90 to its divorce with Pininfarina. No matter how you try to paint lipstick on a pig, there are sacrifices to the legacy image that are accepted. Whether the justification for the sacrifices made in the name of sales, new management, or government regulation -its still erosion of the company's soul.

 

I dont think anything in the age of digital has close to the 'soul' of what was created in the age of analog.

 

The only edge the digital age has over analog is in the efficacy of its marketing.

 

at some point these things became weapons - god knows only a handful of people with the money shld actually own them

 

I know right?!

 

Losing the soul, it s not a question, its actually " a fact " !!!
SF90 is not a mecanic car, and its the first time. It s make me smile when i see guys make a comparison with the LF.
The LF is still a mecanic car with a KERS and a NA V 12.
How could you compare a V8 TT with a massive NA V12 ??? It s just a no sense !!!
Ferrari s soul is the engine and nothing else...so, if you like an heavy car full of electric cables, with turbo engine and a BS sound you re thinking Ferrari is still alive, but in this case be clear with yourself, you re simply buying a badge and nothing else...

 

or a car that let's your track very fast. Let's not forget gentlemen, at the end of the day, Ferrari = speed. I agree, much of the techno-alchemy takes less and less for the driver, but that's just they way the world is headed. Ferrari is simply adapting to a different landscape. As I said many times before, it is not a time for lamentation. In fact rejoice, if all this gadgetry is not for you; there are plenty of older models to enjoy. Having all this only makes the older ones that much cheaper since many demand the latest and greatest.

 

As definitions of ‘soul’ go, this is all a long way off. The F40 means turbo is no barrier to soul, the GTO (the real GTO) that Pininfarina does not equal soul and the original VW Beetle or Citroen 2CV that a car doesn’t have to be either a supercar or raw to have it. Soul seems to be popularly defined on this thread as “if I don’t like it as much it has less soul”. This, to me, is nonsense. Partly because we all like different things and future generations will like different again, but mostly because people have been saying this for literally decades and many of the cars we now love would have had the same criticism, such as the Dino, the 308, the 360, 430 and 458 (remember everyone who said each of those generations was more computerised and therefore ‘soulless’ than the predecessor?) The Dino was the first V6 - of all the things! I bet Enzo’s first car was even tarred by the same brush - “it’s no Alfa...”.

A Speciale has soul. A 488 has it, different but it’s there. And the 812 definitely has it. Without doubt these cars are not as compromised as cars that went long before them and there is no question that those cars that were literally hand-hammered together by engineers and machinists are long gone and had a more direct connection between driver and maker than for any car built today. But we all know why they will never come back and probably should never come back. F1 had those glory days, when men were men, but the truth is none of those ‘men’ would argue today’s safer, but to some more tedious, sport is not better. If only for the sole reason they would have been able to grow old alongside their peers instead of constantly have to refer to them as long-distant memories. That’s not saying they regretted their racing. Not one bit. But to have today’s safety and not have to see their mates succumb would have been very welcome to them.

Progress does not always bring everything we want but it’s not cool to simply focus on what we lose and ignore what we gain. The young people in my family and their friends would literally laugh at anyone calling a modern Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Aston or McLaren in any way uninteresting or soulless. Mostly they just dream that one day they will be able to own one.

It’s an odd irony that the man who always said the best Ferrari is the next one, breathed life into a brand of cars where the customers seem to regularly hanker after what went years before.

 

No. Kinda like it's not happening here (with SF90). No soul or porn. Just opulent lard with a horse badge on it. And a hideous ass to boot.

 

You guys are all making great points. In the end, change is the only constant.

Let's face it, what gives a man made object "soul" is really us. Something about it captures our imagination and resonates with us. We have 5 senses and thus 5 ways of getting information into our minds. (Though I doubt taste really applies here!) So it could be sounds, looks, vibrations, smells, the feel of the materials, the way it's finicky about starting, any of it, or all of it. And if the car doesn't do "it" for you, then you will just discard all the hype and say this is terrible. But if you do click with the car, then you might say it has "soul". And if enough consensus builds among enough people then you can say with confidence that a car has soul. In the end these are just man made objects.

Will the SF90 have soul? How can we know without even a drive? Time will tell. The rest is just us guessing.

I miss LDM too, but I think he would have been forced into the same or very similar decisions because others became aware of how profitable his game plan was, and they decided to get in on the action. The added volume and competition from McLaren and others likely meant the days of seeing production models appreciate were fast ending. The key for Ferrari will be to maintaining strong residuals relative to the others.

For whatever its worth, I don't think Ferrari is losing its soul. For me Ferrari has always been a racing team that also sells dream machines. As the eras change, the definition of a dream machine changes. But they are still dreams worth dreaming, still striving to win in F1. And the cars are really amazing, truly worthy of our imaginations.

Of course, that means they won't appeal to everyone. Its like member @George330 said above, we're all looking for different things. So I can also understand if someone says that for them the new stuff just isn't doing it. Fair enough because so much of this is subjective. I think this happens every time there is a change.

This reminds me of a story. I was a little boy visiting a family friend with my uncle. This fellow owned several Ferraris (I was too young to know the models, but now I know they were 275s and 250s and the new 512 and 308). I was so excited to see the brand new 308 he had. Just like on TV! So I will never forget my surprise at how his face became so red and how he became so angry in discussing how "Fiat has ruined! RUINED!!!!!! Ferrari and they don’t look the same, they don’t sound the same, they are garbage!!" (he probably used some other words!)… I thought the new ones were the coolest cars!! He really loved those old timers in the corner that I thought were kind of boring looking(this is as to my young mind). As we left I asked my uncle how he could be so upset and why would he not like the new cars which I thought were much more cool. I don't remember everything my uncle said, but it was more or less that things change, and sometimes people don't like the change, especially when they have become very comfortable with how things are. As a child, I thought who would resist this change?! But now, as an adult, I understand. Because when we have a strong association with something, we tend to think this is how it will be forever. It's difficult to see the need for change.

Of course, history does not always repeat itself literally, but as Mark Twain says, it can rhyme. And I wonder if we are seeing a bit of a replay of that here. Member @of2worlds has pointed out to me that cars like the 812 and the F8 are really for the traditionalists, in the same vein as we've had in the past, and it seems they will be made at least for a little time longer.

And now we have something new in the SF90. I remember reading posts of people saying Ferrari has not been appealing to the youth as well as others. Now they are.

If you want searing NA, you can have it. If you want light weight and turbo torque, you can have it. If you want hybrid insanity, you can have it. If you want an engine just ahead or just behind of the driver, you can have it. If you only like the old cars, they are still available. Yes, they are expensive. But this is Ferrari. The price has always been high, and so has the value.

No one knows if it will be successful or not. But I like their chances.

 

An excellent post. Bravo, you and I are kindred spirits.

 

Thanks Paul, I should have also cited your point about the older cars being available.

 

Thanks!

but hahaha like it's a big secret?

I'm personally glad things change because that means I can afford the older cars that fall out of favor with the new generations. Depreciation can be a great thing!

Excellent post, especially your story about your youth, I had a very similar experience and your post really hit the bullseye for me.

 

This is a nice video I just watched and enjoyed. I find the ending relevant to this thread.

 

Lovely post, well put together and balanced.

 

Thanks very much!

I'm fascinated with this new car and I can't wait to see it, and then one day, drive it!

 

Luca gave us the F50, arguably the most complex and ambitiously engineered road cars Ferrari has ever built. He also gave
us the 550 Maranello. The 550's styling was criticized at its launch but more than 20 years later is rated as one of the finest all-round GT cars ever made. That's good enough for me.

 

Back then, but by today's standards it is rudimentary. You make a valid argument though, Ferrari is a forward thinking company and Pierro summed it up superbly on the video posted by Caeruleus11.

 

I enjoyed this very much, thanks Caeruleus11:

"I think he would be very happy with Ferrari. He would been happy with the technological developments as well. He would have been fascinated with angle of producing hybrid or electric vehicles. He would have been the first to do it. He would have been the first to look to the future."

-Piero Ferrari

If you want to argue otherwise, don't be offended if I give more credibility to Enzo's own son.

 

That was a very nice writeup Caeruleus.

It's a general dilemma in life. We want progress and evolution - but at most times, we also are holding back, and to a degree we fear change.

But will hybrid technology actually take away the soul? I don't think so, and here's why.

As was said, WE as people provide inanimate objects with "soul". We cherish them, we like them, we sometimes come to love them. It's part of what we are, part of our culture. We find new and exciting ways to look at things and use things. This will continue on, even with turbos and hybrid technology.

I had the pleasure about 6-7 weeks ago to find myself in such an odd thing as a Tesla Roadster S. Yup, that little Elise based sports car Tesla started out with. I was initially VERY sceptic, and a bit on the fence. But boy did that little thing surprise me. As "dead" and bland as a Tesla P90D is, as exciting, alive and fun was this little thing. Later that day, I found myself in an F12. Was that more exciting? Yes, but the little Roadster S sure as hell made its presence known in my head the following days. It had soul, it had charm, it was through and through a great little icon.

Now what about the SF90. It's a hybrid, so will it be without soul? No. And why do I say no? We already know that three of the most astonishing cars on the road today are hybrids. The P1, the 918, and the almighty the Ferrari The Ferrari with it's drop top sister Miss The Ferrari Aperta. If the SF90 turns out to be soulless, it will not be because of the hybrid system, because we already know they can work wonderfully, and we know Ferrari has already been successful with one of them.

Am I presently a huge SF90 fan? Not really. But that has more to do with the looks, and maybe the fact that I had hoped for a bit less weight to get it a bit more into the realm of the baby hypercar that it was sort of made out to be.

But as Caeruleus says, we don't really know anything until we have been behind the wheel. Until then, we can most certainly take great comfort in the fact that Ferrari is currently churning out some truly epic cars. 812, Pista, F12, FF, 488, and Porto. I'm not fearing change just yet. If they keep on evolving like this, please Ferrari, do as you please

 

A flat screen dashboard has zero soul. A supplier sourced electric motor and battery has no soul. Anybody that has worked at a high level of a company where customer decisions and policy are made knows that going public instantly loses soul. Your best and most inspired people will leave and go back to what made their work feel more worthy. Losing the passion of LdM was also one of the biggest recent blows. His conviction of the specialness of the brand rubbed off on all parts of the company. Losing PF has most definitely damaged the company and very deeply IMO. These are the challenges of Ferrari.

For the true follower, soul is about racing so the luxury brand is not of concern. For some it is the mighty, screaming and historic NA V12 layout with Enzo's name scribed into it being available to common folk. That's my sweet spot. Ferrari will always have more soul than a widely mass produced automobile if it at least retains some of its heritage in their offerings and its employees keep special the meaning of the brand and the finished product looks beautiful (that specific term is important to the distinction). If its just about selling units then it will have the soul of an entry level Kia or Hyundai which is negative soul actually sealing soul from nearby parked vehicles.

 

From now on all Ferraris will have a particle filter including the special models you know about? I know the F8 already has it.
Thank you ; )

 

Not sure I'd use ''rudimentary'' to describe the F50's V12 being used as a stressed member of its chassis. Pretty awesome from where I sit, and virtually impossible by ''today's standards'' due to cost and probably a host of other boring reasons. Just saying.

 

The reason that engines are rarely stressed members is that this layout has some huge disadvantages for road driving. Ferrari have acknowledged the shortcomings of the F50 and fixed them in the Enzo and they have stated so themselves. I don't think we can really compare the complexity, technology and cost of a modern hypercar to one from 25 years ago.

 

Front end that looks like 1993 Camaro, back end that looks like 2019 Camaro, lack of Pinin design, scoops fins and spoilers cluttering every panel, GPF filtering not only soot but also SOUND, fully digital instruments that look like a Sony Playstation, battery-powered, too heavy, and on and on....

I find absolutely NOTHING to like about this car, and I'll never be insane or stupid enough to buy one. This car is built to please governments and shareholders, it is NOT built to please Ferrari lovers.

Just my opinion, flame me all you want, I don't care. We're all entitled to our opinions.