Deciding on a Cali vs Cali T for somewhat regular use to work | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Deciding on a Cali vs Cali T for somewhat regular use to work

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by skinguy23, Jun 11, 2019.

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  1. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Morrie
    Like I said there are going to be different opinions based on different experiences, and ideas of what makes a car good or bad. After over 470 cars 5 decades of rebuilding and designing parts for cars, my experience is there is no car that is perfect which is why I always have at least a dozen at a time. You opinions are right and valid for your experiences, and how a cars sound effects your emotions, and your enjoyment, but each car I have only needs to have one purpose and it must be good at that purpose or it will be modified or replaced. I do not own any car (even my dogs grand Cherokee was modified for dog transport only) that is the way it came from the factory. When the time comes for me to hang up the wrench and my design tools, I guess I will just stop buying cars.
     
  2. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    #27 4th_gear, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2019
    [*** P&R comment deleted ***] There would be no learning or advances if every opinion is regarded with the same value. If that were always so, there would be no Ferrari S.p.A.. At any rate, my point of reference for preferences is not actually mine, it's Ferrari's. I only ascribe to and state my understanding of Ferrari's preferences.

    What I stated was that Ferrari had to make something it did not want to make. I didn't say Ferrari changed its preferences or felt that turbocharging is preferable to its classic appeal as an Italian sports car company that delivers on PASSION, rather than just deliver numbers (reduced carbon, impressive HP. torque).

    As for modding, I understand your OC penchant and that it makes you happy. I like modding too, so long as the car works better, lives up more to its potential, performance-wise. FWIW, I am also not done with tweaking my Cali30 HS.
     
  3. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
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    Shawn Hicks
    I guess the answer for the op is basically try to get seat time in both, preferably close together. I like both cars, each have pluses and minuses in my opinion. The real “value” in my opinion is the Cali 30 with HS. However any of the cars are great cars but I’m looking at it for what I’d use them for which is weekend pleasure driving. I lean more towards the Cali T simply because I like the interior better not because of the exterior changes, or more horsepower. The takeaway is I don’t care for the exaust note stock but I haven’t driven a California T with the sport or any other exaust.
     
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  4. skinguy23

    skinguy23 Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2011
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    Steve
    I very much appreciate the comments and preferences mentioned by all. I will do some test drives in each (although I have previously owned a Cali and Cali 30, but not the T) but what I wanted was a variety of opinions on the pros and cons on each car by people “in the know”, especially owners who have had the cars for a while. I very much like the original Cali and will probably go back to it. I haven’t been in the cars with the handling package, so maybe I should look into that. There is no bad option here, so life is good. Personally, I never felt the original Cali was in any way slow, as I do not track my cars (although I now have a 2018 Porsche GT3 manual ). Anyway, thanks for the advice.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  5. odellicour

    odellicour Karting
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    Apr 15, 2019
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    Olivier Dellicour
    Tunning box or ECU programming ?
    Big difference ?
    Does it modify the T cartography which makes it behave like an atmo (turbo power spread over thee RPMs) ?
     
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  6. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    These days I either have a car tuned that I install and remove using a programmer, or a piggy back, in the T it is a piggy back. I will never tune anther ECU unless I have a spare with the original tune. Anytime you add over 100 HP and TQ to a car you are going to feel a difference, and like most tunes it follows the power curve of the car just increases the power. I am not OC I am Autistic my mind works so fast that I can be typing this and calculating 20 math problems at once Though it is the cause of my success I would gladly have lived a modest life in return for being like everyone else. It is funny among the many things I have trouble with is that I cannot go to a movie unless I am the only person in the theater, it is the only way I can willfully suspend reality, though I almost never make it through a full movie. The same goes with many things people will think something is better because they think it should be, like a tune or a CAI. I have even seen tuners make a fancy box that is nothing more than a throttle controller, that dozens of people on another forum swear by. That tuner would not even take my call when I wanted an explanation of how their product could do what they claimed when has no access to the ECU. Turbo cars are easy to tune, and all my turbo cars (except the girlfriends Cayman S she wont let me touch it) T, 718, AMG GTS, S Class, are tuned You can do other things to make the car feel faster, you can tune the transmission to shift faster, you can put in a throttle controller, in some cars bigger turbo's, but most people tend to stay away from too drastic a change. Doing this stuff is why I own cars, The Gallardo was an absolutely terrible car in AWD, but when I turned it into RWD (and a few other changes), it became a great car. They were not impressed at Lamborghini that I was taking their creation apart, though the car they built many years later was well lets just say I recognized the work they did. I do appreciate that everyone has a different opinion and I have said this before, I am at a point where I have forgotten what I've forgotten about cars. I never claim to be a car expert (just a guy with an 8th grade education that likes to take stuff apart and put it back together), just someone with a lot more experience than most people. Yesterday I was driving the Maserati Gran Turismo MC, and I have to say that car can be a blast, it is so easy to slide the rear out and it sounds a lot better that the T (I was told this by over 30 people who can hear). Granted it is not a hardtop convertible (mine is a coupe), but I think it is pretty good GT car. It serves it's purpose well.
     
  7. lucasines

    lucasines Karting

    Apr 22, 2016
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    Gilles
  8. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
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    Shawn Hicks
    I found that driving them back to back revealed the differences in the cars. However I am apparently easy to please because for the Driving style I use they all fit the bill. It became more an issue of what the cars themselves looked like and the “boss” liked the California t best visually and I liked the interior of the T more but the exterior of the earlier car. Ironically my wife liked the Mclaren 650s better then any of the California’s, go figure. But I reminded her it didn’t fit the criteria she imposed, car must have back seat, car must be under XYZ amount ect and I found it funny because she hated the 488 spider enough she wouldn’t even sit in it.

    Good luck with your shopping.
     
  9. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    Selecting a car on appearance is relatively easy as you would start by looking at the car models side-by-side. Once you have decided on the model, you would compare the specs on the build sheet vs. pricing vs. mileage, model year. Then you need to do some test drives to make sure you like the way the car feels. If in doubt, try another sample of the same model. This is especially true for used cars as they normally have extra mileage. One car can feel different from another car of the same model, same spec. For prospective buyers who buy these cars for how they feel to drive, for performance, then several test drives comparing the cars would be advisable as it takes a bit of time to assess cars you are not accustomed to. Aside from feel, there are also various performance settings.

    I test drove a few 650Ss, 12Cs years before I bought my 675LT Spider. The MACs have very good seats and immediately feel more comfortable whereas Ferrari seats are more upright, allow easier movement of your body and work better if it's the driver sitting on them. MAC seats wrap around you. Ferrari seats do not but after about 20 minutes of driving my new Cali30, I no longer felt the "looseness" of the seat and I've never felt fatigue or discomfort since then. I have the standard power seats, which saves a lot of weight over the full power/heated model.

    You should realize the MACs are a pain to get in and out. If you forget to bring something into the car a couple of times before you start your trip, you quickly realize this is not a very practical car. And then there's almost zero storage inside the MACs.

    The Super Series MACs do ride more compliantly than the Cali because of the MAC's active hydraulic suspension. The Cali's MagneRide is fantastic but IMO the MAC's suspension is more dynamic... however, regardless of their superior performance they feel really weird, somewhat unnerving, in the 12C and 650S when you corner hard because their active suspensions are too intrusive and I prefer the Cali. Thankfully, this is completely sorted in the 675LT but that fantastic car is much more expensive than the 12C and 650S. The heavier steering feel of the MAC works better than the Ferrari's, which is too light although you can dial back some weight if you know what you are doing. The feel of the 675LT is intoxicating. Once you drive it, if you love driving you have to own one.
     
  10. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    Michael
    Sorry Morrie, I did not mean to say you were "clinically" OC. I also consider myself somewhat OC because I am very persistent and will engage and expand my interest in things that catch my attention until I complete or satisfactorily resolve whatever it was or is. In your case, I sense cars and probably gadgets present interesting projects for your mind to exercise your expansive intellect on.

    The human mind cannot stop working, it has to occupy its time on some task, regardless of whether it is useful or not. Otherwise, it would "crash". So OC activity is in a way, a means to continually exercise the brain, in the absence of external interruptions or new tasks. I once worked for a very good computer company and learned that it's actually what all computers are designed to do. We design computers in our own image, our own brains. Computers never stop computing (even when they're hung), until the power goes off.
     
  11. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
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    Shawn Hicks
    I’ve rented California’s and California T’s on vacation, which in my opinion gave me a better feel for the cars then a typical test drive. Yes the T has more power but really lacks the Ferrari sound. Of the cars I drove only a few times did so really get on them as I simply am not an overly aggressive driver. So for my personal driving taste I know I’d be happy with either car. As I mentioned earlier I do like the T interior better. Both had Daytona seats and neither were overly difficult to get into or out of. I do prefer the retro styling of the earlier California over the T not to say I dislike the T.

    As for the options on the California line, honestly the only really must have for me is the fender shields, but having said that I’ve not seen anything that had standard seats only Daytona or diamond pattern. Of those 2 I’m pretty indifferent neither really do it for me or turn me off. As for color combos just have to look at the cars and determine if I like them together though I’m pretty against red interior, doubt I’d be too keen on white or really light colors either.

    As far as the Mclaren, I think they are cool and probably would have wanted one 15-20 years ago. Same for the 488 or 458. I did rent a 488 spider and while it was fun I found myself wishing, more then once, that I had the California T. Maybe my tastes have changed as I’ve aged but the GT cars are what I’ve found I enjoy driving the most. Lately I’ve been checking out the FF quite a bit, but always come back to the California.

    There have been a couple of cars that I’ve nearly pulled the trigger on but for one reason or another ( ppi issues, can’t come to an agreement, ect) I’m still looking for the one.
     
  12. Rule12b

    Rule12b Karting

    Jun 4, 2018
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    Richard
    What he said. Had a Cali, and spent a lot of time with a 488. Have had a lot of different cars and currently have the Cali T and an Audi GT Spyder as our daily drivers. Without question, answering the OP, the Cali T is the most perfectly sorted sports/GT car for daily use I've ever driven, and by a wide margin. It's fast when you want it to be, handles well enough, but is steerable with a finger, tractable, and a snap to get in and out of, put things in, you name it. It's a great weekend car for a trip with the Mrs.

    No, it's not my favorite car of all time, nor my first choice for a track day, but as a daily, go anywhere, anytime car, it's truly outstanding. I'd have to assume the HS simply improves on it. Nothing against the 1st Gen Cali. It was more raw and visceral, but SO much less refined overall. More like my GT (though not so much of a track animal) in terms of doing the work to go fast when you want to, as opposed to being able to sip a latte and hit the fun pedal.

    Just my .02. For perspective, we like the T so much that I'm probably going to sell my Audi to get a second one since my wife never let's me have it for the day unless of course we are together. :)
     
  13. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

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    Michael
    #38 4th_gear, Jun 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
    I prefer the more edgy feel of the Cali30, especially with the mods I made to the car. I also prefer the retro styling of the older Calis. Unfortunately, the Calis like many people, are not easily photogenic. Cheap camera lenses and digital snapshot rendering causes distortions that are not faithful to what the human eyes see. There is too much wide-angle distortion. Unless you own a Cali or spend a lot of time with them, you wouldn't notice this. It takes extra work to capture what you see with your eyes in a photo.

    The transition from the Cali30 to the CaliT marks the transition from Pininfarina design lineage (550, 575, 612, 599, Cali) to Ferrari's in-house design lineage (FF, F12, CaliT, GT4 Lusso, PF). I relate more to Ferrari in a traditional sense so the Pininfarina DNA feels more authentic to me. The current Ferrari DNA, with the exception of the LaF and some aspects of the FF and F12, doesn't appeal to me because the other modern Ferrari design cues seem to be present on cars from other modern brands. Some people pointed out the SF90 looks like a Corvette design and I got the same impression, on my own. It isn't good to look like cars that are 1/8th the value. The good thing about retro Ferrari design cues is that Ferrari is perceived to own them and this adds to my enjoyment of the look.

    Here's a shot I took of my car at the park last Fall. The design is well balanced. There is nothing off about it... unless you take bad, hasty snapshots of it.


    Here's a shot of my interior.

    All the panels are upgraded to cuoio leather and there is none of the default black leather or plastic. Seat belts are also colour-matched. The CF on the steering wheel LEDs are covered over with cuoio leather. Contrary to the erroneous impression about glare, there is no difference in glare from the cuoio leather because glare is mainly reflected off the texture of the leather, not the colour. At any rate, all the glass are also tinted with an 80% shade film. As a retro design, the car interior looks much better with aluminium trim rather than CF. I prefer to drive in the countryside, country roads, rather than in urban environments, so the softer retro Italian design cues add to that nostalgic ambiance. My standard power seats are Daytona, as are the small rear seats. The door handle and aluminium release catch are a work of art as is the "flying" billet aluminium bridge on the centre console. The fit and finish of the CaliT may be better than some (early) Calis but my car is a later production run model and its fit and finish are excellent.

    I think this interior is better executed, less contrived than those of later cars (in an effort to look different) and I prefer it to the CaliT's.


    Finally, my engine bay also features upgrades, originally fabricated in Austria, back in 2009.

     
  14. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    No problem, I never get offended either, I consider that a positive part of what I am. By the way I have known this women (a very attractive one) who have been in the car biz a long time and she just moved over to a Maserati/Alfa dealer, she called me yesterday about some cars including a FF, 4C spider, RCF coupe, and a RR V8 supercharged. all low miles he dealer is not far from my house. She has sold me quite few cars in the past and if she can deal with me, she can deal with anyone.
     
  15. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    Mar 22, 2013
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    You have an 812 for visceral excitement. The Cali T IMO is a better daily driver by far than Cali 30 for all the reasons cited. Quieter, more buttoned down, more refined etc. still runs like a banshee if you want.

    And if you want a singing beautiful rock star drive, get the 812 out. You don’t need to have one car that does it all!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  16. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    I stopped by Algar Saturday and they were delivering a really nice brand new 812, and it sounded great. It was blue and striking in the sun, and it looks like I am going to have a 458 soon.
     
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