No i have lots of room Maybe I will cut a couple off and get good pics then Miro or John allways seem to be abke to source that stuff. I think John had a source when he was busting my balls for using fools gold connectors ha ha.
Yes but thats not the case here. I also have a race bike at 14 to 1 which uses ngk spark plugs that are not available anywhere but japan. Showed them to many ngk guys back in the mid 90s and nobody could find them except the factory superbike tuners.
Yes positive as i used a timing light and I know they go to this cylinders because when you buy factory wires they physically wont go to the wrong hole as they are cut to length Actually not positive as it was the 5 and 8. Which on my car is the coil closest to driver. Good catch John you da man.
Not at all. You checked for a spark with your timing light before and there was none on the #1 bank. Or is the shielding on some Ferrari ignition leads so good, it stops even quality testers picking up signals? Although changing that socket (pin?) is a good idea from the standpoint of good maintenance practices, it doesn't seem to be a logical solution, as it should affect 4 cylinders. If it does fix your bank 2 problem, then could it be that the socket was restricting the current to the coil pack to the point where it was highlighting potential weaknesses in other components. e.g. a plug or lead on 2 or 3?
Only thing is I am lead to believe because originally bank 2 was all good and 1 had nothin* and now 1 is all good and 2 has 2 out of 4 firing that all plugs are fine and its in the wiring. Not saying i do not appreciate the suggestions but now that this happened i suspect only 3 things so please correct me if i am wrong guys 1 its the power lines to the coils 2. Its the signal lines to the coils (more likely) 3. The cam phase sensor does something that i do not know about. Once i figure this out and the car is running fine i am going to unplug it so we all know exactly what it does. We need to know!!
Just be aware that I'm not 100% sure which trigger wire from the ECU (going to the coilpack on pin 1 and 3) corresponds to the 5&8 and 6&7 primary/secondary coils. I used the F348 diagram to fill in some of the gaps in the F355 diagrams. There are (1,2, 3) pin numbers on the coilpack plugs on the car itself, but I don't know if this corresponds to the numbering system in the F348 wiring diagrams. I can't think of an easy way to figure out which ECU wire affects which sparkplug pair. Would wiring up a small smoke-alarm type 9 volt battery and a switch to the middle and one outer pin of the coilpack trigger a measurable output from the coilpack? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Definately brown with grey stripe. The rest although are hard to tell the color no other stripes are there that are not visible from the pics
As the problem is getting really "misterious", I would go back to the very simple basics - replace the spark plugs. You got one of the plugs on Bank 1 igniting the fuel vapour which was at no pressure - easy task. But are the spark plugs capable of igniting the mixture under compression? It is possible that there is something wrong with their quality, they are on the way out and playing-up. The Jag V12 example I gave shows that they can all go bad overnight, i.e. after the heat cycle that broke them (not even one of the 12 cylinders fired). This was an extreme case as the plugs were not correct for the engine but still an illustration of how the plugs can go. On the subject of "gold" pins - do not combine zinc coated ones on one side and gold on the other side of the connector. Jaguar (again) issued a recall for their X308s to replace pins in one of the connectors (MAF or TB, cannot remember) which had a combination of zinc and gold. This caused unreliable electrical contact between the pins (dissimilar materials) and caused all sorts of problems.
Yes I do agree And I know John is a huge supporter for that and has the data to back up that statement. Remember though Miro bank two used to work and 1 was down. Now 1 is all good and two has issues. Do you really think that plugs now could be bad in bank 2
One of my mainquestions is does anyone actually know if the cam phase sensor being unplugged causes a running problem to this extent. I am starting to thinkit does. Even though on new cars its not as big a deal
I mayjust pull a couple wires from the main ecu so we can update for everyone on atleast my 99 wiring for that. I am in this deep and that would be good info for all
Bank one is still not really good as the plugs are not igniting the mixture (under compression). And now the plugs on Bank 2 also stopped, for some unknown reason or simply because they "caught-up" in their failing with the other ones. We can develop various theories but it will not solve the problem.
Just tried inducing a current into the secondaries by attaching and detaching a small battery hooked up to pin #1 (in my diagram) of my left bank coil pack and it triggered the closest (vertical pair) i.e. cylinders 5 and 8. My diagram is correct. Pin #3 triggered 6 & 7. Fortunately, I have Ricambi spark plug stickers on my coil packs to tell me which plug goes where. Since the left and right coil packs are identical, the general rule will be that the pin closest to the vertical pair with fire that pair. (EDIT: Sorry, I made a few edits to get this message right. I hope no one read the original version ) I checked the ECU to coilpack plug pins earlier. So they are ok.
According to that earlier quote from Bosch, it doesn't. It just defaults the system to a safe setting... but I'm not willing to try and prove it. Knock sensors and cam sensor plugs can be accidentally swapped over causing problems, but again, I'm not willing to try it out. You've checked the ECU to sensor wiring, so the latter is definitely not your problem.
Did you put the injector relays/fuses back in for bank 1? Also, this all a started with a cam sensor code or something. At this point I'd be looking at that again carefully. But still recall you had a scope trace from one of the coil primary pins that looked abnormal. It all seems odd.
There are no separate fuses/relays for each bank on the 5.2 car. +1 Is it time to start throwing some random parts at the car? All the logical parts have failed I think Grant is probably right about the wiring. All the end components have been changed in the ignition control system (other than the crank sensor). It's the parts inbetween we need to figure out how to check properly. We know the wiring has been checked for continuity, but it's like something is breaking down under stress or with vibration. Miro, in regards to that wire we kinda labelled as an electrical system power sensing wire on the alternator (which is powered by the same source as the right hand coil pack), it's actually the "IG" wire. In some references it says it "turns on" the regulator. This seems more important than just a wire to adjust the output of the alternator.... or does it serve both purposes? Could a regulator problem be causing this problem. We know low volts can do strange things to cars.
Looking at your beautiful diagram, the 3 wires of the connector are: RED - volt sensing (goes to the + terminal of the battery); L.GREEN - battery charge warning light; YELLOW - I did not follow it all the way (gets very complicated). I believe the yellow is the one you are talking about - ignition switched power supply to the regulator shared with the supply to the Pins 2 of the ignition coils. If there was partial short of this wire inside the regulator, it would affect both ignition coils as the supplies to their Pins 2 come from the same wire. However, I checked this on the easy 348 diagram and not on the 355's. And Grant tried with direct supply to the Pin 2 of the "dead" bank coil which caused the engine to run-on (when the Bank 2 was working) meaning that on the 355 both Pins 2 share the same supply.
I understand your point about the pin 2's sharing the same voltage supply (the link is in the passenger footwell relay panel), but low voltages sometimes affect different items to different extents. Generally, if you have two branches in a circuit and the branches in the circuits have identical components, if you introduce a high load or addition resistance to one branch, will the voltages on the identical components change by the same value? Straight logic tells us that single component failures cannot cause this problem, so do we have to look at the possibility that we have two (partially) broken components which by themselves do not affect the running of the car? Was the other bank producing a fully normal spark (when all the cylinders were firing)? Did the right bank suddenly get better because two plugs stopped working on the left bank? Grant is re-pinning the coil power wire on the left bank (which has no spark on two cylinders, but logic tells us this should affect all the cylinders in the left bank). Note that that L.Green wire is actually yellow with a green stripe. Unfortunately at low magnification, the colours are melting into each other. You need to zoom into them to pick up the colours.
I never took fuses out only unplugged injectors but they have been plugged in for some time now. Thats my problem its like a lot of things are giving problems when they were not before. When the car quit i checked codes and a faulty cam phase sensor was present, b7t it did say intermitent on the fault. Maybe if was present before, i have no idea.
I was hoping that each night when i plug the tender in and it says full battery the next day i could rule that out. But like you said what about under load maybe battery is bad. Would i ever feel stupid if that was the case. The thing is it turns the car over quite fast but does slow down after 5 or 6 tries each night.
Depending on how long you're cranking the engine, to me, the battery doesn't sound so bad. I was thinking more of an alternator regulator problem or a problem on that yellow wire which goes to both the right hand coil pack and the alternator regulator. If there is an intermittent short on some section of that yellow wire, it could affect the voltage on both coilpacks and affect the output of the alternator in general. I don't understand how you can have no fuses or circuit breakers in the coilpack system. At least if a fuse blows, you know where to start looking.
