430 Scuds that don’t sell for years

Which is great for me, since I own a 2009 Pozzi Blu 430. I’m hoping it’s a bit rare for the year and color combo.


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I love blue Ferraris! Pozzi Blu is outstanding. Alas, the market seems to think differently than us...but that is good for buyers. Start a thread with pictures of your car, I would love to see it.

 

Go look at the ad, looks good to me....

 

I've always been of the opinion of 2,500 Scuderias and 500 16Ms for a roughly 3,000 total.....but nobody knows for sure.

 

On most Ferraris, Pozzi Blue looks to dark, but on Scuderias, the lighter stripe (silver in the case of the CNC car) makes it look better to me....same thing with the red for me, a gold or silver stripe makes it pop

 

Pricing has been crazy on scuds. They were sub-$200k, shot up to around $275k a few years ago, and are now again sub-$200k. I agree that the scud seems to suffer from the middle-child syndrome. CS is highly appreciated, as is the Speciale. The scud, however, seems to be treated as an also-ran. I think that it will someday get its due as, imo, it is one of the most underrated Ferraris out there.

 

I personally love the Scud and hope they get their moment in the sun as they surely deserve it.

They are modern enough to have a good level of electronic safety nets so that people whom aren't track rats cat drive them very quickly without getting into trouble. They also are still pretty rapid when driven hard on the road (or track). Despite in 2019 being unable to complete with the modern turbocharged horsepower wars cars I think you honestly will have more fun in the Scud. You'll need to drive it harder and learn how to extract performance out of it compared to say a 458 which undoubtedly is easier to drive quick.

They also subjectively don't sound as good as a CS either but they fight back with a much higher quality more modern interior and better braking. In fact they still feel very special and are quite modern to drive too, just lacking any form of touch screens is actually a bonus to me as these tend to really date a car. Glad Ferrari fought the urge to include any as they would look ancient now. They are literally a CS with 20% more of everything, braking, performance, handling , etc.

At the price point they are at they have to fight against a lot of tough competition all packing a lot more power and that's where people get confused, more power doesn't necessarily make a better car. I was in this position earlier in the year and while I chose to buy a McLaren 12C over a 430 Scuderia but I wouldn't blame anyone to choose a Scud. And that's only because I have the 360 which is pretty similar being based on the same Alcoa chassis.

 

I'm waiting for f355spider to sell his.

 

Each car as its own merits - the CS was kind of the first of a breed, which gives it some special status in addition to its relative rarity.
The Speciale was lucky to have the end of its production occur just during a speculative bubble, which gave the impression it has a special value.
But personnally I cannot escape the respect for progress, to me an F430 is objectively better than a CS, a 458 is better than a Scud and (God forbid...) a 488 is better than a Speciale (considering the cars, I'm not interested in cars as investments). The F8 / Pista case is somewhat different because the F8 is not a new generation, so it's similar rather than better than the Pista - but being significantly less expensive it presents a better value to me (for the record, before going for the 488 I evaluated the Scuderia vs the 458, and I would have chosen the 458; I did not really hesitate between the 488 and Speciale and I turned down the Pista before ordering an F8).
And none of these cars is old enough to really propose a fundamentally different experience - to get that, one needs to go more back in time or go for something more radical.

 

I always enjoy these discussions and the rationalization for one's decisions. Everyone is different. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was looking for a used F430 in 2013/2014, but decided the Scuderia better fit my needs. At that point, it really wasn't that much of a push to consider a 458...but it just didn't do it for me in the same way. I still feel that way...I'd probably skip to a 488 next.

 

I love the Scud. I’m glad pricing is not $250k+ as I want to try to add one to my garage in the next few years.

 

OK Mr Erection...when is it going on the block?

 

Not anytime soon....liking it way too much

 

I feel the same way about the 458. It’s fast, yes but it lacks something that the F430 and below cars have

 

I'm sure that interior turns people off. Looks like it gets dirty very easily and even looks dirty in the photos. Plus some people just aren't a fan of the blue, myself included.

 

Why are 16ms so expensive comparatively to scuds? If I said I had a factory convertible CS for sale, most would laugh at the idea.
I get low production numbers, but I still say desirability trumps low numbers every time.

 

I'm sure the factory now wishes they made the Challenge Stradale Aperta.....

When the 16M came out, I was like "wait, a convertible track focused car?....LOL" But the thing is really beautiful and special. Plenty of demand to keep the pricing high, but like alot of things the pricing is slumping at the moment with a few available pretty far back from $300k.

I posted a thread a couple of months ago on Rennlist (huge Porsche site) asking them to contrast the dynamics between the Scuderia and the 991.2 GT3 with similar HP but alot more good driving technology (PDK, rear wheel steer, better Aero, etc). And you know what most responses were? Get a Scuderia....yep, even on a Porsche site the car is well respected.

 

Can't say I agree with this, but will concede we talk more about supply than demand....because supply is really easy to quantify. Demand, extremely difficult....maybe impossible given all the variables.

All we can really say about the Scuderia in terms of demand is how fast the cars sell in the low end (sub $175k) of the current market.

I mean, who thought Ford could sell 4,000+ cars at $160k+ 15 years ago? Its a FORD.....and those same cars trade at 1.5-3X sticker now....that's the demand side of the equation being heard.

 

I have both, and I like my Scud better. The GT3T is a better car, a sweet manual, and absolutely fantastic in every way, but the Scud is more exciting. And, I can get away with driving the GT3T to work; most think its a carrera.

To me, the Scud fixed everything I didn't like about my 360 I had for 9 years; kind of a 360.2 GT3. With the cars being so similar, I would like to add a 458 speciale, as they are a very different car. I also looked at the 458 italia when buying the scud, but it didn't excite me as much as the scud. Better car, just not as exciting to me....

 

you could easily go to the for sale section here and see how many delusional private sellers there are selling anything from a 458 to scud to 360, their cars have been for sale for months and months and they don't understand that their pricing is ridiculous. Dealers are far less crazy with pricing as they usually need to move inventory, many of the cars you see at dealerships with high prices are actually on consignment, which is nice for the dealers, makes it look like they have inventory but they don't have to pay for it

 

I’ve tracked my 16M and it had quite a bit of understeer. But let’s be honest, most owners do not track their Scud. The 16M is a special car and the ability to hear the exhaust with top down creates an even more visceral experience.
I actually think low production numbers definitely help retain value. The craziest jump was when the SA was released and a year later it nearly doubled in value.

Definitely add the S to the Scud if you can....the Speciale is the Scud on steroids. Everything is quicker and crisper and yet it still retains a raw element. They simply have different personalities. I never get bored of either.



Sent from my 16M

 

Actually the 430 Scud is a very competent track car but before you go out on the track it must be on appropriate rubber like Cup 2's and with track based geo settings (lacks enough negative camber and I prefer zero toe at front) and ride height, ideally corner weighted. Get this right and you can virtually eliminate the understeer and make it really rapid around the twisties...

 

I agree with you, I think settings from factory may be deliberately placed to understeer for safety.
Any car to be tracked should have alignment, suspension, and corner balance adjusted appropriately. I had taken the 16M to the track out of the box and also was on street Pirelli’s. Yes, tires and suspension make or break a car at the track.
Would be interested to hear people’s settings on camber, castor and toe. How did you set your toe in the rear? And how much negative camber?

Sent from my 16M

 

I agree, IMO the 16M is one of Ferrari’s sexiest cars, but the concept seems to me like one that wouldn’t appeal to many, esp a a significant price premium. Maybe I’m wrong to assume that most buyers of a track purposed car intend to actually track it.

All things being equal ie not including market values, I would take a Scud over a CS in a heartbeat.

 

I found this very interesting and relevant to this thread.