812 VS Rumors | Page 22 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Some dealers truly may not know yet about GPF, and may have a difficult time finding out. Others may know, but fear losing open orders for buyers who prefer not to have car with GPF, and therefore not be entirely forthcoming with said info. Hard to say.
     
  2. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie

    Oct 25, 2018
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    Czech Republic
    My dealer knew about it, but did not say a thing.
     
  3. C50

    C50 Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2016
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    808
    This discussion is making me nervous for my Pista, which is not even spec’ed.
    I emailed Ferrari through the owners portal to ask if late Pistas will have gpf fitted and they promptly replied that I should ask my dealer.

    Perhaps it is just an enthusiast’s fear of the unknown and concern about added plumbing and weight with loss of sound and power, but I would have taken Eilig’s wise approach had I known about the possibility.
     
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  4. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
    2,374
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    Anir
    You’re not alone. Our Tailor Made Pista is 10Red, and I called my dealer today to see what could be done to avoid the GPF if it’s an issue.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. C50

    C50 Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2016
    1,729
    808
    Have you decided what you’ll do if your car arrives with a GPF? Will be curious to hear what your dealer reports.

    Part of me wonders if it’s actually such an issue as to be apparent when driven on public roads in a reasonable fashion. I want to believe the gpf is no big deal, like the Y2K-of-cars, and if it weren’t for fchat I wouldnt even know about GPFs, but I am concerned about just how big an impact it will be.
     
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  6. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    and on Fchat it is JTSE30 of Texas who deserves a lot of credit. He brought this new GPF exhaust modification on 2020 MY Ferrari models to our attention in great detail some months ago!
     
  7. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    That is 100% true. Were it not for his insight, I would not have included the GPF clause in my Purchase Agreement. For that I owe him an enormous debt of gratitude.
     
  8. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    My thinking: for Pista, F8, and cars with turbos, GPF inclusion will be less meaningful in a way, since the turbos already reduce sound, meaning there's "less to lose" in the first place. With 812, on the other hand, one of the great selling points is that it actually produces more sound than turbo cars, and even better sound that its predecessor the F12. As stated by many, the F12 required aftermarket exhaust to be "properly heard." But Ferrari improved 812 in this regard, with enhanced sound. So with 812, there is "more to lose" so to speak, compared to V8 turbo brethren. In my opinion, one of the top reasons to buy 812 is the glorious song of the V12. If that song is diminished, it loses some appeal. Add to that some extra weight and less hp, and that's why it was important to me to own 812 sans GPF.
     
  9. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Did you go with GF paint like your tdF or is it a secret for later???;)
    Understand if you don't want to share the build spec until the car arrives...
     
  10. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    LOL

    They don't make 'em like they used to...

    This is why there is a strong argument these days for just buying used Ferraris as opposed to all the new junk coming down the line. I was contemplating spec'ing out an 812 Superfast for a while, but now I think it makes more sense to just buy a used 2018 or 2019 model and not lose any sleep over this whole GPF stuff. I mean did you guys watch that R8 video above? The car sounded absolutely neutered.

    Crazy

    Ray
     
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  11. snowboy458

    snowboy458 Karting

    Jan 31, 2013
    72
    Somebody please change the thread name to "GPF"
     
  12. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    I REALLY wanted to, however... Doing so would have added build time due to Ferrari Historic Colors being painted at different facility. So in order to keep the expedited production period on track and guarantee no GPF, I had to stick with a "standard" color....
     
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  13. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
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    I don’t know what I’ll do. It’s a very unusual and heartfelt Tailor Made spec, complete with a new paint color and asymmetric stripe. I genuinely hope it’s not an issue since my spec was locked in (10R) this month.

    Maybe, the GPF is less of an issue on turbocharged and smaller displacement engines as suggested. Still, this Pista and our TM 812 are each about $600K MSRP, and for that price, I hope Ferrari doesn’t force undesirable nanny-state items on us that are not legally required in the U.S. As much as I love visiting Europe and states like California, there are distinct reasons why I have lived in Libertarian-minded Kentucky and Texas, where the wheels of so-called progress turn more slowly.

    I also asked my dealer to see whether the newly introduced driver’s “aids” (e.g. automatic braking, adaptive cruise control, lane avoidance, etc) will remain optional or become standard items like HELE (start/stop). They may be a deal breaker for me if mandatory on future models. Fingers crossed.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    CALL your dealer principal asap and have strings pulled, hope you can get your cars provisioned as a MY2019 or at least a chassis+powertrain set aside now, then you'll be good, if MY2020 each will have AEB (automatic braking, not clear how/if it can be disabled, I have heard maybe only in CT off mode instead of button like HELE, but not clear at this time other than AEB will be on MY2020, all models, it is mandated in all first world and many other major countries starting 2020 other than USA and India...), will also have radar guided dynamic cruise control and some models will have blind spot warnings in side mirrors, like Lusso already has this option)
     
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  15. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

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    I initiated that conversation with my dealer and FNA today. Really appreciate your efforts to educate us. It’s hard to believe that Ferrari is getting caught up in all this nonsense.

    Would GPF, HELE, AEB, etc, still be an issue if Ferrari’s annual production numbers remained below 10,000?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  16. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    JTSE30 is right you have to stress the importance to them of getting your tm spec built before the MY 2020 kicks in. They were happy to short the USA on 812 allocations when they were pushing through those EU builds. It's time they did something for the U S A !!!
     
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  17. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
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    thanks guys, and you're welcome, it's been a labor of love to research and connect all the dots, as they say, knowledge is power
     
  18. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
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    #543 JTSE30, Jun 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
    That is an excellent question, unfortunately the answer is yes, even if Ferrari's production remains a SVM (small volume manufacturer, i.e. < 10000), each of those are still required, well, HELE is not "as required" as its deals with increasing fuel economy to reduce CO2 penalties in various regions.

    Automatic emergency tracking(AEB): mandated:
    https://www.apnews.com/a0989b2b0fed4a3eba4d461426492de4

    GPF isn't exactly mandated, but there is no other way for a Direct Injection Gasoline Engine to pass new RDE/WLTP rules, for big manufacturers that started from September 2018, for SVM's 2020 and Ferrari (and all others) is included (that's why you find the GPF on the F8 and SF90 already shown (SF90 cut away showing GPF below).

    See page 59 (last paragraph) onward from here:
    https://corporate.ferrari.com/sites/ferrari15ipo/files/ferrari_nv_annual_report_12.31.2018.pdf

    812 undergoing RDE testing (from Fall of 2018)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    GPF in SF90:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    for the 812, the GPF will displace approx. 6.5L (400 cubic inches) as it must be equivalent in dimension to the engine it is connected, it will be in two parts (2 exhaust channels) and may be included in what's called a 4-way catalytic converter or it may be like what is shown in the SF90, a separate device (this is most likely) that then leads to a catalytic converter near the muffler/also called a silencer
     
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  19. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
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    Incredibly helpful, albeit depressing, information - especially since some tech like AEB isn’t required for MY 2020 in the U.S.

    Thank you again for the education.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  20. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
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  21. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    You're welcome, for the MY2020 812's for the US, base MSRP has increased, here's history (w/o delivery fee):

    2018
    $335,275

    +$22,827 increase for 2019
    2019:
    $358,102

    +5600 or so for 2020 base msrp
    2020:
    $363,702

    So, part of the increase in base price is to pay for those new tech nannies and the GPF devices

    and, as an aside, notice the large difference in base MSRP between 2018 and 2019, that leads to skewing of pricing for pre-owned 812s, a 2019 has a base price nearly $23,000 more than an equivalent 2018 (delivery fee of $6750 remains same for all 3 model years)
     
  22. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    A thought to ponder: Could it be that at least part of that increase from 2018 to 2019 was to help pay for the R&D necessary to integrate GPF into the car for 2020?
     
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  23. nycbrose

    nycbrose Karting

    Aug 11, 2014
    103
    Pacific Northwest
    I've been following this GPF conversation for quite some time now, and just learned about sticky buttons yesterday. Definitely depressing stuff :(
     
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  24. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Could be, as the only requirement for USA (MY2019 812's) was standard rear camera, and Euro to USD currency exchange rates actually favored the Euro in 2018 when MY2019 pricing was set (better than 2017 rates of exchange), it was a very sizable increase with no other expressed motivation other than they could do it...
     
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  25. Roland1688

    Roland1688 Karting

    Nov 2, 2014
    184
    Taipei
    Full Name:
    Roland
    Based on the discussion above, it’s inevitable for Ferrari to install GPF on 812 spiders and related special models in the future.
     

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