the F40 is undervalued

True, but those correcting phases are the market at that time, the market is a continuously evolving thing that goes up & down, and it is what it is for that given period.

 

If can tamper the data you can tamper the market. If that happens the market lies. That was my whole point. Just because it corrects somewhere down the line doesn't mean it didn't lied.

 

I understand, but for the most part data is not tampered with, and although sometimes a given market is a bit confusing, if you know how to read the comps you can establish true current market ant any given time, it's really not that difficult.

 

Auction houses data are the only that are really public besides private data and in this space there isn't a data source more skewed than auction houses, they are quite literally the mediums of jacking up the prices following the methods above in ALL the collectible markets + money laundering + shady movements of money/payments.
Then you have the emotional part and at some houses the drinking. The day they start oxigenating the air it will be completly useless. Now, not all auctions are worthless, but unless the seller and buyer can be traced, it's not worth much.

 

Speaking as a professional who specializes in this specific market, knowledge of the items in any given market market is key in having true perspective of value.

I find auction data when taken in total across the continents and across the model variants paints a true picture of where the market is, especially if you are familiar with the individual cars and the individual auction venues.

That said, besides all the auction data, as a specialist,I have access to @ half-a-dozen or more entities who keep Private Treaty sales data which IMO is very important as those sales occur in an atmosphere which is not charged and carefully considered, before the parties sign off.

Also, I have access to data from @ a dozen dealer affiliates who are willing to share proprietary sales data based on our ongoing relationship to our mutual benefit.

In addition, a fair number of collectors transact deals entirely privately person-to-person and that proprietary data is also available based on our ongoing relationship.

Using all the above, I've never had a problem having a market perspective that isn't close to reality.

As regards your suggestion that the market is affected by money-laundering schemes, perhaps in one or two sales, but a sale or two does not a market make, besides, the auction houses often know the consignors personally, as do many of us in the business, and by and large the participants in the market have well-known legitimate businesses.

As regards your suggestion that the market is affected by individuals who unwittingly bid on cars when they are inebriated, all I can do is repeat the saying that a fool and their money are soon parted, and yet I'm confident that most of the people buying Supercars at auction are not fools. I happen to know that most auction bidders are in fact quite astute and are making considered bids based on what they feel is the market, bidding as they are on non-essential luxury goods which are objects of desire, and thus the market speaks.

Here we have a thread suggesting the market is too low, and then you suggest the market can be made to be too high, all of which underscores what I am saying which is, the market doesn't seem correct at any given time to buyers and/or sellers who don't want to believe what the market is telling them because that's not what they want to hear based on whatever their agenda or perspective is. The market is not a matter of buyers or sellers (or market-watchers) subjective opinions, it is a matter of accumulated statistical data based on sold results.

I think today's market is pretty healthy, it comprises many knowledgeable collectors with long-term aspirations, and this provides excellent checks & balances that results in a solid market.

 

some of this is a question of semantics.

having been an oil trader for decades, i look at any market through the lens of my opinion of that market.
and everybody looking at a market does the same thing; consciously or subconsciously.

in theory the market is always right, but it may not be at the 'right' price in your opinion, and if that is the case, and you want to put your money where your mouth is, and there are enough of you with that opinion, then the market changes in that direction.

markets are not static. prices move with opinion.

 

Joe Sackey can not disagree, because you have other data points besides auction houses and you know this data better than I do, but don't underestimate thr impulsive buys neither the ammount and quantities of schemes around auction houses.
On the note of Ross profession, just on oil money alone it's by the thousands of purchases as a way of taking the money out of the country into europe or US, if they can inflate an artist or a certain object while we do it, why wouldn't we?

 

You make one of my central points precisely.

Although you seem fascinated by the mechanics of money-laundering, I doubt it has much impact on the market for F40s as many of the people who buy & sell these cars are legitimate entities buying them simply because they like them, no hidden agenda or nefarious intent.

 

Not really fascinated, but having seen first hand how auction houses are used for money transfers and how the people in charge of the mechanics use these transfers as a way to inflate and hype certain niche markets auction houses lost in my pov a lot of trustworthiness, especially the data.
But yes, point already taken and beaten, I'm sure you have good data from the privateers to edge any anomaly of the market, so no point on continuing.
P.S. Any idea on what price non raced f40 GT seat?

 

Agreed, let's leave it there.

Sorry, I don't know anything about individual F40 GT seat values offhand.

 

My bad english betrayed me once again, it was sit I meant, as in what values do f40 gt have gone for and how much they might go now as we see a small rally up on f40 prices?

 

Ah I understand now, it's always difficult to speculate on future values with any precision, but I don't look for any real changes in the short term.

 

@ Joe: Do you see differences in value with view on non cat/non adjust, cat/non adjust , cat/adjust?
Sliding window premium?

 

Yes, but the difference in values between the different variants depends very much on a host of other factors now that the cars are all close to 30 years old.

Sliding window cars tend to bring a premium for those that want them, as do the other specifications you mention, but the main differences in value come down to cosmetic condition, mechanical condition, maintenance history, mileage, modifications or the lack thereof, originality, completeness of factory ancillaries etc.

You cannot simply hang a price-tag on each spec, we have to value all F40s on a car-by-car basis.

 

Nice....
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Gentlemen, can I ask you what application you are using ?
Have a nice weekend !
Jacques

 

Hammer Price

 

Euro cars dont get the love in th usa!

 

Many thanks, I have it now !

 

Sucks for the owners of those cars, but I love the Euro cars more than the US. They have a lot cleaner lines imo. The US front lip plus all the side markers and third brake light breaks up the look too much. I like the way it looks as it was made for the Italian market...

 

They do now, we’ve sold a number of them quite well via Private Treaty.

 

Well unless u want to provide actual numbers from your private treaties we mortals have mostly public info to draw conclusions and my conclusion is pretty much fact!