Dino 08038 now on BaT | FerrariChat

Dino 08038 now on BaT

Discussion in '206/246' started by UroTrash, Jun 18, 2019.

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  1. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Jan 20, 2004
    38,863
    Purgatory
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    Clifford Gunboat
  2. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
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    Chris
    I guess I really don't understand concours judging...
     
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  3. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Fchatter is the current high bidder. A well known Dino guy, to boot!!

    D
     
  4. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Oct 15, 2012
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    Newbury, Berkshire, England
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    Pretty car, nice patina. Shame about the colour change (only because I love BDM / tan - I wonder why;)).

    $400K anyone?:D
     
  5. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
    3,811
    Norfolk - UK
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    Tony
    wrong tool kit!
     
  6. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
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    Rob C.
    The ad states that it won several 'local' concours events. Those are normally people's choice judging and do not follow any established scoring guidelines.
     
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  7. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Always fun to watch one, especially when the seller is brave enough to go "no reserve"

    Concours judging at the "local level" can be pretty uneven. But I think I saw a "Greenwich Concours" trophy in there, and that's not exactly a small potatoes show, as I recall.

    I've had great, knowledgeable judges at the FCA PA/NJ, and then turned around at a big show like New Hope, and had judges who knew nothing about Ferraris, or Dinos for that matter.

    Even so, who cares what awards it has, it's a Dino.

    D
     
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  8. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    #8 synchro, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
    Is BAT the new go-to place to sell Dinos?
    I witness the success but it seems a bit odd to me, although the constant draw of crowds and the low fees really have an attraction.

    The Seller's participation in BAT questions seems to add a new dimension of confidence in bidding that the old auction houses (Scottsdale, Amelia, Monterey, etc) can't match. It appears that it is the key to high results as it can instill certain confidence and respond to queries mid-auction. I note that many of the questions appeared very basic and to be by very recent Dino converts.
     
  9. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

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    #9 synchro, Jun 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
    +1, quite true.
    Monterey, Amelia, Scottsdale are all overseen by Nationals, that is the serious judging (where Matthias will show up)
    The local events just do the best that they can.

    Even if the local regions do use the official FCA Scoring guidelines, the guys that know the cars the best are usually contestants in the show. This leaves the head judge/organizer looking for 3 judges to judge that class. and some regions have a tough time getting volunteers. Period.
    For example, The PNW Region FCA has almost 300 members and I originated/financed the first PNWR FCA Concours in 2014, yet still in 2019 there is a tough time getting volunteers, see last minute request "No Experience Necessary".

    Some of the cars submitted for judging last year were long time Concours winners with decades of history at events across the country. Interesting comment:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. Willdief

    Willdief Karting
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    Oct 31, 2003
    188
    Mercer Island, WA
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    Will Diefenbach
    Scott - Please do not comment on events in which you have not participated and do not fully understand. Yes, you did lead our first Concours in 2014 and as you said then you weren't concerned with adhering to any "real" judging standards and that it was just a car show with trophies. (NB: you did not finance it - the club reimbursed you) The following year the club decided to take the Concours seriously and I took the role of Chief Judge. I consulted with the National FCA's Chief Concours Judge, learned about and then implemented the IAC/PFA standards.

    Since this is a repeat of a post in a different online forum, I will provide the responses that I posted there.
    - Will Diefenbach, Chief Judge NWR FCA Concours 2015-2019
     
  11. Willdief

    Willdief Karting
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    Oct 31, 2003
    188
    Mercer Island, WA
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    Will Diefenbach
    Since you referenced Donv's comment from a different section here some time back, I will post my reply to him first:

    Hi Don,
    This is Will Diefenbach, Chief Judge for the NWRFCA Concours since 2015. First, thank you for bringing out your 365 last year. It's a lovely car and we were very happy to have it on the field. There was some very stiff competition in your class as you know. We'd love to see your car again and hope that you will enter it this year.

    I'd like to share some info about the judging here. We take great pride in our Concours and the judges and I take the responsibility of fair judging very seriously.- We judge cars based on the standards and forms established by International Advisory Council for Preservation of the Ferrari Automobile (IAC/PFA). The forms and deductions are very prescriptive.

    - Our teams of 3 judges are directed to evaluate each car absolutely objectively, without regard to who owns them, where they are from or how miles they have covered.

    - The teams are instructed to apply the exact same standards to each car in class. If, for example, one particular piece is deemed to warrant a deduction on the last car judged and it wasn't evaluated on the first, it can't be taken without reevaluating the other cars.

    - The judges are also instructed to be generous with minor flaws that show the car is driven - minor rock chips, some road dirt, minor interior wear, etc.

    - We recognize that this is not Pebble Beach (though we have some judges with experience judging there) nor is it the National FCA meet. We are a little more lenient.

    - There is a time limit on judging each car and so sometimes things will be missed. The most important thing is car to car consistency within a class and I feel that our judges are very good at that.

    I am happy to answer any specific questions that you have about the judging. I saw that your car did very well last year but that the others in class did a bit better. I do hope that you'll join us this year, whether judged or for display. Your car is certainly a contender for a trophy.

    Best regards,
    Will
     
  12. Willdief

    Willdief Karting
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    Will Diefenbach
    Scott McClure:
    I don't recall seeing you at the Concours last year (or since 2014) and am a bit surprised by your comments. Let me address them point by point (since you included disparaging and incorrect remarks about the Dino class judging in your other post about the NWR Concours I'll include my responses to those as well).

    1. Judging standards - please see my previous reply
    2. Request for judges - The Concours requires a team of 33 judges to cover 11 classes. Last year 100% of the judges had prior judging experience. With a change in location for 2019 some of my experienced judges are not available so I am recruiting more. As in the past, new judges are paired with more experienced judges. Always. And the materials and guidance I provide make it pretty easy to get a new judge up to speed and capable of participating as an objective team member.
    3. This is not the National Meet and we do not have access to model-specific experts across all classes. However we DID have a Dino expert on the team in 2016, 2017 and 2018.
    3. The winning car deserved to win based on objective evaluation. The other two Dinos are lovely cars but they did not score as highly. It should be noted that even the class-winning car did not achieve Platinum status because of points deductions related to its restoration. And the winning car did drive onto the field.

    Scott, you would be welcomed at any of our events as a club member if you decide to attend. But please refrain from disparaging comments about events that you did not attend. Such behavior does not seem to be in the spirit of this forum.


    - Will
     
  13. usshelena725

    usshelena725 Karting

    Nov 22, 2014
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    Johnson City, TN
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  14. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    15:40, Scott to serve!
     
  15. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    Muffin-Tops
    Nah, "No Reserve" just means you have 3-4 "friends" in the shill chute, ready to deploy at different price points...Wait, am I cynical of online auctions when hundreds of thousands of dollars are at stake? :eek::D Yes, lol, yes I am.
     
  16. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Clifford Gunboat
    Quite an accusation.
     
  17. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    Just calling it like I see it (that goes for the big auction houses in person too)
     
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  18. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
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    Dave
    Common practice. Nothing specific to BaT. In fact they might be less likely to see such activity. But at most big money auctions, especially in the art world (and dare i say car world!) that is essentially built into the system.
     
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  19. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    I'm lost.

    1) Nice GTS,

    2) it won a major award, that is important

    3) It won a local award, that is not as important

    4) Why not?

    5) Reduced judging pool, leaving less informed on model specifics, see examples


    I'm surprised anyone would debate that the judging at local level would be more rigorous or intense than at Nationals. Matthias shows up at Nationals, that sets the standard, right there.

    In any case the GTS on BAT has attained that award and is a very nice looking Dino
     
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  20. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sold for $352K!
     
  21. Neelfryer

    Neelfryer Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2017
    318
    Beverly Hills
    Full Name:
    John
    plus the 5k buyer's fee

    so let's call it

    357K
     

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