Pista and GPF - late build possibility?

As far as I know, US cars will not have the particulate filter. This seems universal across all manufacturers

 

No, they will not have GPF fitted, that is the whole reason the Pista was released a year earlier that original expectation, it is also the reason the 488 coupe+spider are ending production. The F8 was released early because of GPF, the Pista will remain free of GPF.

GPF is not required in USA and probably never will be and it certainly is not in any plans I have seen from the US EPA.

Late production Pistas will be for non-EU, non-China countries

 

OK enough with the technology jargon! How are you going to spec that Pista at the atelier? I agree JTSE30 has provided a wealth of information regarding the dreaded GPF where there was no general knowledge, previously!!! He also plotted the model production schedule using the start dates for new legislation which was rather astute...

 

You're welcome, glad to help, this whole GPF issue is something else and the EU, unlike the US EPA, really puts the pressure on automobile manufacturers, short notice, big problems for non-compliance (i.e. 'stop-sale' for failing to pass particle number RDE testing).

Ferrari has been working on a hybrid long before London first threatened its restrictions, but, then again London's ULEZ regs really have no impact on any car compliant with Euro 4 (i.e. MY2006):

https://electrek.co/2019/04/09/london-ulez-goes-live/

If anything, China would be the biggest threat regarding requiring zero emissions (London does not require zero emissions, they might at some point).

Anyway, good question, why did Ferrari do the SF90, a hybrid? After all the "hybrid" portion is about as minimal as it could possibly be made, I doubt it has anything to do with CO2 violation penalties. It may be the 'eventual' threat that the EU and others will not allow combustion engine automobiles to be registered after MY2028 or so, making cars is a long-term proposition, takes years of development, etc, so, Ferrari had to get started.

see page 9 here:

https://corporate.ferrari.com/sites/ferrari15ipo/files/ferrari_nv_annual_report_12.31.2018.pdf

Ferrari is quite concerned how hybrids will be received...

They definitely are not making hybrids just to be on par with their competition, after all Ferrari excels at engine building (engine builder of the year over and over again), hybrids are clumsy, two drivetrains that must be made to work together, but, if Ferrari takes out the combustion engine, that which they are literally the best at, and then do what others can do just as well (i.e. electric motors+batteries) or perhaps better, where's the emotion?

and, from page 19 of the link above:

The introduction of hybrid cars is costly and its long term success is uncertain.

We are gradually but rapidly introducing hybrid technology in our cars. In accordance with our strategy, we believe hybrid technology will be key to providing continuing performance upgrades to our sports car customers, and will also help us capture the preferences of the urban, affluent GT cars purchasers whom we are increasingly targeting, while helping us meet increasingly stricter emissions requirements.

While some of our past models, such as LaFerrari and LaFerrari Aperta, have included hybrid technology, the integration of such technology more broadly into our car portfolio over time may present challenges and costs. We expect to increase R&D spending in the medium term particularly on hybrid technology-related projects. Although we expect to price our future hybrid cars appropriately to recoup the investments and expenditures we are making, we cannot be certain that these expenditures will be fully recovered. In addition, this transformation of our car technology creates risks and uncertainties such as the impact on driver experience, and the impact on the cars’ residual value over time, both of which may be met with an unfavorable market reaction. Other manufacturers of luxury sports cars may be more successful in implementing hybrid technology. Longer term, although we believe that combustion engines will continue to be fundamental to the Ferrari driver experience, pure electric cars may become the prevalent technology for performance sports cars thereby displacing hybrid models. See also “If we are unable to keep up with advances in high performance car technology, our brand and competitive position may suffer.”

Because hybrid technology is a core component of our strategy, and we expect that a significant portion of our shipments will consist of hybrid vehicles in the medium term, if the introduction of hybrid cars proves too costly or is unsuccessful in the market, our business and results of operations could be materially adversely affected.

...To that end, Lamborghini has been making all kinds of noise about its upcoming V12+hybrid, but, Ferrari has recently stated their V12 will not be hybrid, not be downsized, not be turbo....so, there is a big problem, probably realized during development of the SF90 that had Ferrari do an abrupt about-face on V12+hybrid,etc...

Time will tell in the end of course

 

• My italian pista spider is a 2020 production , do u think it will have gpf?

 

Yes, Italy is part of the EU and all Ferrari MY2020 production for EU will have GPF as it is required to satisfy RDE testing.

And, all Ferrari MY2020 production will have GPF regardless of destination country.

I presume there is a very small chance your Pista Spider will be built without GPF but only if the engine is built very soon, please let us know when it arrives and if it has GPF devices.

 

Over in the V12 section, there was something about a customer including a clause in his purchase contract regarding the GPF. This caused his car to have to be built much more quickly. That raises a few eyebrows I think. Here's a screen shot of the post that caught my eye:

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Since the Pista / Pista spider will be discontinued in 2020 anyway, I doubt Ferrari will go through the hassle of adapting the GPF to them for only a few months of production. My guess is that they intend to produce as many as they can in 2019 (that's why they postpone the deliveries of the F8; probably no customer F8 is being built in 2019 to leave room for the Pista) and maybe they will have a few Pista produced in 2020 for markets not requiring GPF. However even in Europe some Pista spiders were initially planned for 2020 so I don't know how it will work out; btw I saw a Pista spider ready for delivery at my dealership in France last week (it's probably oe of the first here).

 

This sounds extremely sensible. I hope for the sake of the concerned future owners this scenario ends up being accurate. In the case of the F8, the buyer has advance warning and can make an educated decision. However, GPF slipped in at the end of a model run like the Pista feels like a complete bamboozle.

 

I am getting confused.
I assume Pistas to date and hopefully all Pistas do not have GPF.
I assume all F8 Tributos will have GPF.
How come the F8's power and performance figures appear not to be affected ?

 

For what it is worth my dealer is telling me that they believe all Pista's will not have GPF. The belief is that Ferrari doesnt want to have two separate exhaust systems for the Pista. Im wondering how true that belief is considering they could probably stick the F8 system in the car. Anyone else hear from their dealers? My Pista was stage 60 last week so I think Im safe thank goodness.

JTSE30 seems to have the best information as far as this subject goes so hoping he is right.

 

So if it is easy to maintain performance they could do that on a GPF Pista,
Are we just talking about engine sound as the problem ?

 

If you want to read F-Chat speculation go to 812 VS thread which has pages of speculation about GPF.

 

I don't think that is correct about no F8 for customers now. Saw a matte blu elettrico F8 out on it's pre-delivery test drive last week in Maranello.

 

I've attached a 24 page summary for EPA testing for the MY19 488/Pista/GTC4 Lusso. No mention of GFP but interesting to note they mention how Pista's they expect to sell in the US/Canada in the document.

 

MY 2020 F8's will be delivered this year concurrently with 2019/2020 Pista's?

 

FWIW, on the upcoming Porsche Speedster the EU cars will have GPF but the US (and non GPF region) cars will not. The GPF is integrated into the exhaust header and for the US cars, Porsche has engineered some sort of internal manifold “mesh” that replicates the desired back pressure of the GPF in the exhaust system so that they need only one ECU for the world.

Of note, the speedster exhaust system is 22 lbs lighter than the system on the GT3 (similar engine) so the notion that GPF has to add weight is not true, at least with respect to the Porsche GT3 platform.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk