458 - Anyone installed Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 in 458 Italia/Spider? | FerrariChat

458 Anyone installed Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 in 458 Italia/Spider?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by tekaefixe, Jul 1, 2019.

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  1. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

    May 10, 2012
    1,201
    CH
    Full Name:
    Paulo
    Hi everyone!
    I’m thinking about installing Michelin PSC2 in my 458 spider. Has anyone done that?
    I was going with the Pilot Sport 4 S but the PSC2 have even more grip!

    First problem is the tire sizes of the Italia/Spider compared with the Speciale.
    Second can I install the cup 2’s in my standard rims?

    For the ones who did that, what’s the experience? Do they work as intended or it’s better to keep original sizes and tires?

    Thank you!

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  2. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,861
    I was unable to figure out how to do this so I went with the MPS4S tires and I am very happy with them. Yes the PSC2 would be even better, but I do not find I am lacking for grip.
     
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  3. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,645
    Silicon Valley
    There is at least one other thread on using Cup 2s on either stock wheels or Speciale wheels. The problem as you likely realize is that Cup 2s are not available in 458 OEM sizes.

    Some have encountered problems with their stability controls and others claim not to have had any outright problems. The side slip and other stability controls are very much fine tuned by the factory and while there is some margin for using different size tires, I didn’t want to possibly lose the benefit of that fine tuning, so I went with 4S in OEM sizes on my stock forged rims.

    4S tires seems slipperier than others when brand new, but after a couple hundred miles the grip is extremely good, and better than the Super Sports that I had previously. I don’t find myself wanting the added grip of Cup 2s, which have more of a grip cliff falloff when roads get cold or wet.


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  4. Dicecal

    Dicecal Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 15, 2015
    1,797
    Phoenix, AZ
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    Rob
    The cup2 tires are really track tires that are street legal. They will pick up anything you drive over, rocks, road debris etc. They are slick in cold weather and wet conditions. Unless you are tracking the car, stick with the 4s.
     
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  5. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

    May 10, 2012
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    Paulo
    Thank you so much guys, the opinions are overwhelming, stick with 4S!
    Damn you all were thorough, that’s why this is be best auto forum!
     
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  6. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Most has been said, but I would also add that a stickier tyre adds more stress to the structure so is not advised for a spider, which generally speaking has a degraded stiffness.
     
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  7. FFan5

    FFan5 Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2018
    533
    I'll confirm everyone else. The Pilot 4S is definitely the way to go unless you are tracking your car AND you care about lap times. Otherwise the 4S is better at about everything. Especially tracking your car in the rain.

    I've found that the tires are just about perfect right when the tires turn green in VDA. Until then, I can light up the rears at will (which then turns them green!).

    I have found my Italia needs more front camber. I don't notice it on the road, but the front tires overheat and the outsides turn to jello on the track. Not a 4S problem, just an alignment issue.
     
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  8. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
    3,135
    Echo what's said above. Had the MPSC2 on my GT3 and it's a bone rattling drive way rougher ride. Don't drive them in the rain, you will lose traction at WOT. Going to MPS4s on my AMG GTS was a much more comfortable drive and better suited for my needs as a daily driver. If you track than MPSC2 all the way.
     
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  9. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
    Cup2’s on my Speciale
    4S on my 16M
    I prefer the 4S for all around street driving.
    I was driving my S on a wet road and while going straight went full throttle and spun the car 180....must respect Cup2’s in the wet.


    Sent from my 16M
     
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  10. Randyslovis

    Randyslovis Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2011
    897
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Randall J Slovis
    Funny how time changes things.
    When I took delivery of my 2013 spider, in MODIS you could, and I did, request the Michelin Pilot Sport tire as a no cost option. It was the best of the available tires as was widely known. Since that time, they have certainly been improved and are now in the 4S guise.
    Unfortunately, for max attack the Cup 2 tire has since come out making the Pilot Sport look "inferior".
    Everything said about the Pilot 4S above I agree with.
    To further clarify that I think the 4S is the best road tire, regardless of the daily driver I have, it runs the 4S when it is time to replace the stock tires.
    The one tire that has not been mentioned, that comes in the standard 458 Italia/spider sizing is the Pirelli Trofeo R.
    Because I only drive my car in the rain by accident - not for fear of dirt, but fear of other people being even worse in the rain. Plus, for spirited driving why drive in the rain? Safety first precludes this. Why the above used full throttle in the wet unless to see if traction was possible, I have no idea. But, dare I digress.
    Due to age I am likely replacing my tires at the next annual service. I am going to try a set of the Trofeo Rs.
    Without getting into all the issues about Pirelli tires historically being not as round(!) or uniform in sizing from one tire to another (!) as the Michelins, their lack of wet weather traction, their (and the Cup 2s) not having as much traction as a 4S even above 60 degrees ambient temp until up to tire itself up to operating temperature - I am still going to try them.
    The simple reason is I want to try them out. I will not hijack this thread into one about the spider's structural shortcomings. I will say I have spent 6 years playing with the manettino, tire pressures, roof position, and road quality and can tell you, the steering wheel shimmy - not torsional rigidity itself - can be widely affected.
    By extension, my next experiment is with the tires. I want to find out if changing the tread and sidewall will add to that fund of knowledge. And if so, how so?
    I can always put on the 4S if they are a bust and sell them.
    Let me be clear: I am NOT recommending the Trofeo Rs over the 4S. I am merely curious if they will enhance the driving pleasure in the narrow range I run my car. I know the Continental, Bridgestone, and Pirelli tires I have had previously were markedly different from each other in noise, traction, and steering response.
    Best
     
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  11. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

    May 10, 2012
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    True, the chassis flex in the 458 spider doesnt bother as much as the movent in the steering wheel...
     
  12. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,645
    Silicon Valley
    Yes, forgot to mention the Trofeo Rs do come in the 458 OEM sizes. They have more grip than Cup2s, but are even worse when it’s cold and/or wet. They also wear out twice as fast. I think my buddy got maybe 3k miles on his, but that included some track days. I think they’re worth trying if you want to try that type of tire for the summer.


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  13. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

    May 10, 2012
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    Yes the Trofeo R were the benchmark, now it’s the MPSC2 R.
     
  14. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
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    Mel
    Which size of Cup2 tyres do you want to install ?

    And if not in 295, are they in 305 which I drive now without any problems ?
     
  15. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,645
    Silicon Valley
    235/295. Those are OEM 458 sizes.

    I’m glad you are not experiencing problems with 305s.

    No codes may be thrown, and you may not notice any intrusive intervention. But there are subtleties that may be lost because the ASR is calibrated for 235/295.

    On a track in race mode, the car with OEM sizes is very well balanced, though perhaps with a touch of understeer. I can push the car to the point of dancing on the edge of adhesion. Would it behave the same way with 305s? Maybe. But I’d only know if I switched and tried it.

    I guess it’s only a couple thousand dollar experiment. I’m hoping someone else has already tried it. On a track at 9/10 or 10/10.


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  16. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    Another tip …. from experiences ….. switch the manettino one more to the right (esc) … all systems still available, no more ECU problems.

    Inside info from 458/488 Challenge crews ...
     
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  17. Bandit23

    Bandit23 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 28, 2016
    226
    Miami
    sorry for my ignorance, is this for normal OEM tire option or for the 305 tire option ..sorry this is a great tip just wanting to know
    thank you again for sharing
     
  18. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    No … that is for racing the car on circuits / tracks …

    I had real brake failures in my 458 at 10 rounds on the Hockenheim circuit (Germany) …

    After 100 mtrs it worked perfect again. (Manettino in race)

    Cause: failure of ECU's …
     
  19. Bandit23

    Bandit23 Karting
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    May 28, 2016
    226
    Miami
    thanks for that I will keep it in mind
     
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