430 - F430 F1 Going in for a new clutch today | FerrariChat

430 F430 F1 Going in for a new clutch today

Discussion in '360/430' started by cfensty, Jul 2, 2019.

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  1. cfensty

    cfensty Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 1, 2008
    977
    South Carolina
    2008 model with 16k miles. Car shifted fine but could not start from a dead start worth a crap. Always shaking, shuddering, slipping, etc. Had adjusted PIS to no avail. 11 years on original clutch led me to bite the bullet and replace. Full new OEM clutch, pilot bearing, PIS sensor, seals, Hill TO bearing, machined flywheel, etc. Very interested to see evidence of what was causing the issues. I am guessing worn TO bearing and/or hot spots.

    Any other guesses? I will post what we find.


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  2. Gizzi

    Gizzi F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 3, 2011
    5,182
    Brisbane, Australia
    Full Name:
    Gezim
    The flywheel is concave isn’t it? I hope your machinist knows what he is doing


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  3. Bob in Texas

    Bob in Texas F1 Rookie

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,665
    Just East of Weird
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Not sure what you’ll find. Mine displayed similar symptoms. Dealer found clutch worn at 90% and actuator and pump worn out at 25k miles. Just got it back Saturday after a month in the shop... mostly waiting on some parts.

    Shifting as it should now. The dealer recommended that I drive it in auto for fist couple hundred miles or so to bed in the clutch.

    Good luck and let us know what you find.


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  4. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 9, 2017
    1,329
    Manhattan Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    John
    Bob would you mind sharing a range of how much it costs to change a clutch at the dealership. Thanks
     
  5. Bob in Texas

    Bob in Texas F1 Rookie

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,665
    Just East of Weird
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Let me look at the invoice and see if I can break it down as there were other repairs mixed in.


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  6. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula 3
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    May 9, 2017
    1,329
    Manhattan Beach, CA
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    John
    Thanks Bob. I’m getting close to that point and wondering how much it might cost.
     
  7. Bob in Texas

    Bob in Texas F1 Rookie

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,665
    Just East of Weird
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Parts...
    Clutch $2765
    Throw out bearing $1108
    Another $250 or so for various spacers, seals, springs, studs, bleeder screws, etc


    I also had them replace the accumulator and pump
    Pump $2744
    Accumulator $1269

    According to the paperwork, the TOB was missing spacers causing accelerated clutch wear. PIS was at 11.8 > way too high. I’m not a mechanic so, I’m just reading the paperwork.

    Labor $175/hr so about $5000 in labor for all, but that includes a bunch of hours for accumulator and pump work.

    And 10% off for FCA discount...


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  8. PKIM

    PKIM Karting

    Jan 1, 2004
    197
    Redlands
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Bob, how can they tell that the actuator and pump is worn? Can they read that on SD3?
     
  9. cfensty

    cfensty Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 1, 2008
    977
    South Carolina
    First report back. Initial reading before disassembly was that there was some “overheating clutch time” recently so maybe it is just flat worn out. We will see.

    The machinist being used was recommended by a mechanic colleague (who works on vintage Ferraris) of my Ferrari indy mechanic so I am confident in the recommendation.


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  10. Bob in Texas

    Bob in Texas F1 Rookie

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,665
    Just East of Weird
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I think they tested how the system held pressure. Don’t really know for sure but yes they did use an SD3 for diagnostics, they sent me a couple screen shots. One was the pump was “jammed” what ever that means in Ferrari-speak and then the clutch wear %.
    The initial sign was that I kept finding F1 fluid under the right rear tire, 3 times. Initial thought was that air was in the system after a recent F1 fluid change. Turns out, air was the least of the issues...


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  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,913
    USA
    Where's it going, Karl Troy?
     
  12. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
    772
    San Antonio, TX
    Full Name:
    Hans
    $10k????
    You just made bank account scream in fear!
     
  13. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,138
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Hi Bob,

    Did you go with Hill Engineering Throw out bearing this time or you went with original Ferrari TOB?

    Dan
     
  14. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,138
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    On my 360 Spider F1 the dealership charged me $9,100.00 to replace the clutch parts and labor before I sold it.

    A complete clutch job on my F430 Spider F1 I was quoted by the dealership $15K parts and labor.
     
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  15. cfensty

    cfensty Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 1, 2008
    977
    South Carolina
    Brady Orlando (Orlando Ferrari Service) is doing mine. Karl is a great guy and runs a good shop but you don’t get Karl, you get his guys. That is fine but when they did the timing belt service on my 360, Karl was out of town and they parked it outside in the sun for a few days and ruined the dash. Karl and I worked it out and I would still recommend his shop but in this case I wanted “the guy” and his full focus and attention to detail. Brady is an airplane engineer and does one car at a time so I know my car will get that.


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  16. Tamahal

    Tamahal Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2019
    480
    Full Name:
    TAMAHAL
    Alright guys I have a silly question. Usually I just floor it and shift without taking my foot off the accelerator. But I heard if you let off on the accelerator a bit and shift, it’s better for clutch life. It definitely shift smoother this way, but does it affect clutch life?


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  17. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    476
    Sweden
    Wow that is amazingly expensive. $1269 for a accumulator?? I payed like $60 for a identical Alfa Romeo accumulator made for the Selespeed gearbox and exact the same part. I would have asked for a second opinion on the whole diagnosis by an independent Ferrari specialist that knows what they are doing. It´s weird that all those parts had to be switched out at once and that the PIS could not be adjusted.
     
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  18. APA#1

    APA#1 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,311
    Central Florida
    "I also had them replace the accumulator and pump
    Pump $2744
    Accumulator $1269"

    A little usury on that F1 pump I might add.
     
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  19. Bob in Texas

    Bob in Texas F1 Rookie

    Apr 23, 2012
    2,665
    Just East of Weird
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    Bob
    Hi Dan
    I went OEM, Ferrari will only warranty their parts (2 yr). If I had gone with an Indy, I would have probably gone Hill Eng.


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  20. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 12, 2013
    5,035
    CA Bay Area
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    Steve
    Please share part number. All of us DIY'er will greatly appreciate it.
     
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  21. John_K_348

    John_K_348 F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2013
    2,747
    Boston, MA
    Full Name:
    John E. Kenney
    Ummm, I would say no. An independent, highly experienced Ferrari tech and shop owner told me during my PPI "phone call" not to lift when shifting. Hold your foot still. Also, do not shift in the lower gears below 5K rpm. I am fairly certain there is still some nanny firmware or other "wear issues" that cause a delay in clutch mesh because the other engine data is not in the zone the computer wants. Keep this in mind. I drive with ASR off at all times unless caught in a downpour. Use neutral generously at all stops that do not require a downshift and cornering. more later...
     
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  22. Tamahal

    Tamahal Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2019
    480
    Full Name:
    TAMAHAL
    Oh man, I love the sound at downshifting !!! Got it , thanks...


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  23. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,138
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Hi Bob,

    Did you see my post about the previous owner of my car replaced the clutch 4 years ago and used OE Ferrari TOB and the TOB has failed on me already after only 16K miles.......

    Now it will cost me over $5K to have it replaced with Hill Engineering TOB this time. Ugh!!!

    I cannot recommend to anyone going with original Ferrari TOB when it's time to replace their clutch.

    Dan

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  24. whatheheck

    whatheheck F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Mar 27, 2006
    4,138
    Seattle, Wa
    Full Name:
    Dan L.
    Learn how to properly drive the F1 transmission and you won't have to worry about clutch life again as once you learn how you use it it will last a long time.

    Never let your foot off the gas pedal during upshifting or downshifting. You only lift up when your want to stop the car.

    Anytime you lift your foot off the gas pedal the ECU gets confused thinking you want to stop so it reduces power and torque.

    Go ahead and try it and see which method is smoother.

    To prolong clutch life just always ensure the clutch is fully engaged before you mash the gas pedal. You can feel it when it's fully engaged.

    Dan

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  25. Tamahal

    Tamahal Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2019
    480
    Full Name:
    TAMAHAL
    As always thanks Dan, looks like I’m doing alright then, I just keep my foot on the pedal when I shift.


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