How does the 911 GT2 compare to the 911 GT3 at the ring? (the cars you offered as a comparison, not me!) https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife Or at Laguna Seca: https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988 Or VIR: https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia-international-raceway-grand-east-course-post-01-2014 If we consider the GT2 as a "street car" with brutal amounts of power, there's NO WAY (according to some here) that it could beat a GT3 (if we consider the GT3 to be close to a "track car") on ANY track (again, your comparison, if i understood correctly). Right?
I think you are confused by Porsche nomenclature. The GT3 mentioned by Chad (Guy) is a GT3 cup car. The GT3 in your links is the road car that you can buy at the local dealership and drive to starbucks.
991 GT3 Cup car (Race car, not road legal) Image Unavailable, Please Login 991 GT3 road car Image Unavailable, Please Login
I know. But the GT3 i can buy, is still pretty damn close to a "track car" (as i said in my post, "close") ... and it is easily obliterated by several high-performance "street cars", on several tracks ... "tracks", where the GT3 is designed to live. Might that have something to do with the power difference?
Guys, i know how silly this You're saying that a "track car" with limited power (a car designed and built for the track) can not possibly be beat at any track (for 5 laps) by any "street car" with unlimited power ... no matter how large that power difference might be. I'm not re-framing the discussion ... that's the way it's been framed, since the very beginning (a few pages ago!). I disagree. Especially if that power difference is 3x! Am i saying that power is "all there is", to performance on-track? Of course not! But ... by denying the possibility of a "track car" with limited power, being beaten by a "street car" with unlimited power ... you're saying that power is irrelevant. I disagree. That's all. Have fun, and be safe out there!
911 GT3 -- Road car 911 GT3 RS -- Road car GT2 RS -- Road car 911 GT3 Cup -- Race car 911 GT3 R -- Race car 911 RSR -- Race car
It has to do with many things. The car, the tires, the track, the conditions of the day, the driver etc. But if you pitch a GT3 road car vs a Gt3 cup car on the same day on the same track with the same driver, the cup car will be much faster. And a GT3 RSR car will be even faster. The laptimes you quoted have little value as for most, the driver is unknown so it could be a regular guy sending his time sheets being compared to a ZR1 driven by Probst. Also, some of these GT3 times are for the 997 and not the current 991 etc. Basically, useless. You can only use laptime to validate a point when the cars are driven in the same condition and with the same or very comparable drivers.
From Chas' post referring to the 911 GT3 R is referring to the homoligated class of cars known as GT3 (or GTD in IMSA). GT4, GT3, GTE are all various global homoligation specs that manufacturers build their cars to for competition in IMSA, FIA, SRO, etc.. In this whole discussion I think you are failing to realize just how far these cars are developed beyond a street car. A few example shots below I took at Petit Le Mans last year. GTE/GTLM Corvette, GT3 Huracan and GTE/GTLM Porsche. Getting a street car to similar levels of aero, chassis balance, weight, downforce, braking, etc...would be damn near impossible. With the right amount of money, anything can be done though I am sure. Image Unavailable, Please Login DSC_0944E_2 by Alex Eichmiller, on Flickr Image Unavailable, Please Login DSC_0951E_1 by Alex Eichmiller, on Flickr Image Unavailable, Please Login DSC_0970E_1 by Alex Eichmiller, on Flickr
If you really want to see the difference between a fast street car (GT2 RS) and one of the slower Porsche race cars (GT3 Cup) watch this video from Road America. Same day, same track, same driver.
One other example I will add. The following shots are of the Turner Motorsports BMW M6 GT3 car from Daytona and Mid-Ohio this year. You can see based on the steering wheel how far back they have moved the driver's position from where it would be in a road car. Image Unavailable, Please Login _DSC3685 by Alex Eichmiller, on Flickr Image Unavailable, Please Login _DSC3689 by Alex Eichmiller, on Flickr Image Unavailable, Please Login _DSC3954 by Alex Eichmiller, on Flickr
Yeah this thread is kind of hard to follow. I think the debate has morphed into a hydra. I believe @werewolf actually does own a 1,000 hp Huracan by Underground Racing (or something similar) The original question was could it 'beat' the new Ford GT Track Edition? I have no clue, I don't know anything about the Underground Racing car - I said he should start tracking it so you can get an idea of what track times it is capable of. Then it evolved into can any streetcar beat a track car? I think this is a very loaded question. Since as other's pointed out, so much variability. If things like weather, driver, hp, etc are all equal, non-sequitur, of course, the track car will be faster. Why? (I think the multiple "yikes" comments show the self-evidence of the answer) The other side of the coin is also a rhetorical question, of course, you can have a streetcar beat a track car because of said variability above. So I think it comes back full circle. Can @werewolf car beat the new Ford GT track edition? Only one way to find out.
The problem with all of these “debates” across the entire Internet is a lack of intellectual honesty. Many people really aren’t interested in having a candid, honest discussion. They just want to rag on a car or brand they don’t like.
Spandex wearing posers are going to love this negative review. www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFGyQdttri8&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0rtqQr9KRFgFduKOU6eqAjyG0CyIhpf0I2WS31fxC3keX2NlSQriwjzeM
FChat really needs a sarcasm emoji! Remember: 2 negatives make a positive! (-) X (-) = (+) Me? I believe I could live with a "small" gas tank and I'm not offended by the steering wheel.