Ferrari Speciale vs Pista - feeling/performance/grip?! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Speciale vs Pista - feeling/performance/grip?!

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by tekaefixe, Jul 11, 2019.

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  1. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    You are my hero!
    Btw...what is difference between US and Euro specs?
     
  2. nads

    nads Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2008
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    At a guess I don't think it is quite as simplistic as that........and doesn't have that much to do with top speed but more to do with air flow efficiency and downforce under varying speeds and directional g changes.
     
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  3. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
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    Feb 26, 2008
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    Those “silly swoops’ is why it will kick the other twos asses.

    I like my cars swoopy, you like yours more plain. Different strokes
     
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  4. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Can’t argue with that. :)
     
  5. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    In general I’m not so sure, I still think it has more to do with the “marketing department” than the engineering one. Why? Because one year they proclaim the miracle of some aero feature, and then it is just as quickly gone, yet performance numbers (lap times, top speed, lateral g) only incrementally change. I suspect the computers have more to do with managing directional changes than aero. I’m not referring to major under car aero, or splitters and spoilers...I mean the little do dads, holes, winglets, etc.
    Case in point...listen to AP, head of Porsche GT cars, go on about the miraculous wing on the new GT3, “ increasing down force without drag, efficiency, etc.” then wham bam blammo they pull it off and viola you have the Touring GT3 (with modifications to front splitter I grant). But again, not “essential” to everyday performance of the car.
    I suspect, though I am not an engineer, that Ferrari does the same thing.
    Again, it goes back to point about “internet racing” vs real life driving. On US public roads and speeds that will still land you in jail and have your car confiscated there is no real usable difference between all of these top-performing exotic cars.
    I have been on back roads, straight and curvy with my friend in his 488gtb and me in my 458 Spider...and he was intentionally tying to pull away from me, hitting it hard, and he is a good driver: I stayed at the exact same (safe) distance from his rear bumper the whole time. He was shocked. Of course we weren’t at 155mph+ in a 45mph zone, and neither car was at “its limits.” That’s my point.
    On a track...well that is different I am sure.
    No worries, I’m not throwing hate at the Pista,, and I am a diehard Ferraristi....I am just trying to make an intellectual, non-emotional, point about cars and their relative performance differences in our modern times and that visual changes to cars are essentially just that...visual.
     
  6. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
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    For my sensibilities, the Pista, from a design perspective, is the most interesting and eye catching Ferrari in recent years. Aero dynamics is now fundamental to a track focussed super car and the manner in which it is implemented separates a beautiful design from an ill conceived and poorly executed one. The Pista has all the right elements and they are tastefully resolved. I want a super car to exude a special aesthetic that differentiates it from others. A sleek, smooth design comports with a Bentley or an Aston Martin, not a Ferrari.
     
  7. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    This reminds me of the time I was racing in LotusCupUSA and we all started adding cool, but what we thought were functional, aero bits to our race cars - carbon fiber splitters, canards, diffusers, huge adjustable wings....we looked at airflow diagrams from APR (company that made the CF parts) to get the right angle of attack on the wing, depending on what track we were at.
    One day we were in the pits at Buttonwillow all jibber jabbering about the turn at “Riverside”, high mid-speed turn, and how the wing kept us more stable in that corner. Buddy of mine took off his rear wing, claiming it produced too much drag at Buttonwillow and proceeded to beat us in the race.

    Couple points I learned...there’s a lot of data out there that companies claim adds “this and that” to a car. But bottom line is when you, yourself, feel it on track help your track times, then use it. If it don’t, then remove it.
    If you ain’t tracking the car at the limits, most of this proclaimed “aero” isn’t helping your Schumacher ego.

    I remember getting so crazed about the Performante shattering the Nurburgring record...I had to have it! I was one of the first to take delivery. The ALA system of the rear wing with its carbon forged composite - ingenious!! Did I really feel the aero advantages in street driving? No! But it sure looked cool. Sold the Perf after a year for a Speciale.

    Designs sells cars, that’s what you see with each evolution from CS -> Scud -> Speciale -> Pista. Some like cut outs, some like curves. Some look “racier” than others, and in the end it’s just a matter of taste.


    Sent from my 16M
     
  8. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    Not true. Top speed requires just a sleek aeroflow. Downforce requires those appendages. Doing 200 in a straight line is manageable even for a 575. Having to make a turn at 150 requires the Pista's aero. You seem to miss the importance of new age aerodynamics.
     
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  9. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    It's track and car dependant. Sometimes more straight line speed is preferable to more downforce. This doesn't mean that these bits were not producing the desired d/f.
     
  10. craigburton

    craigburton Karting

    Aug 27, 2016
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  11. 458-Italia

    458-Italia Formula 3

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    #36 458-Italia, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019

    Attached Files:

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  12. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

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    Not only are a car's aesthetics totally subjective, so is how one relates to its driving experience.
     
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  13. C50

    C50 Formula 3

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    Doesn’t the pista come stock w an inconel exhaust? Curious: How does the Kline differ?
     
  14. raclaims

    raclaims Formula Junior

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    I actually think the Speciale ruined the beautiful design of the 458...so I kept my 458 and got a pista which I think is gorgeous.
     
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  15. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

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    Holly crap, I wasn’t expecting that!! Please go deeper, it’s just because of the sound younsay this or also engine response, feeling of the car?!
     
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  16. 458-Italia

    458-Italia Formula 3

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    #41 458-Italia, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    Only exhaust manifold is in Inconel®️

    All exhaust will be in Inconel ®️ soon
     
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  17. 458-Italia

    458-Italia Formula 3

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    Pista is more sanitized: the sound, the softer suspension, the steering, the soundproofing
    The engine response is satisfactory
    it is faster, more powerful very effective but you feel less in osmosis in immersion with a pista than with a speciale
     
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  18. 458-Italia

    458-Italia Formula 3

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    IMHO : the design of the Italia is not one of the most beautiful Ferrari

    I had an Italia before a now a Speciale and:
    no regrets!
    everything is better in a Speciale especially design !
     
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  19. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    That is called "more absorptive". The mission of a suspension is to absorb undulations, while keeping the body as flat as possible. The Pista is both more absorptive and has less lean to boot. What you are experiencing is a superior suspension, not a compromised one.
     
  20. 458-Italia

    458-Italia Formula 3

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    #45 458-Italia, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    That’s true !

    but the feeling is less informative !

    in my opinion the technology must be as much at the service of efficiency as driving pleasure
     
  21. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

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    This is the contrast between a suspension with greater driver feedback vs one that isolates the road surface from the driver. A suspension that is overly compliant and absorptive will undoubtedly be more comfortable as it will soften and cushion the impact of a rough or bumpy roads but will consequently be prone to less precise in high speed cornering and manoeuvrability due to excessive body movement. A firmer suspension ( less absorption or cushioning) will not only provide greater feel of the road surface, but will incur less unwanted body mo0vement which results in greater handling precision.
     
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  22. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    That’s why the 1000hp SF90 has an S-Duct just like the Pista’s, right?
    You seem to miss the importance of how every car’s “critical” aero features change with every single car.
    :rolleyes:
     
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  23. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    I am sorry sir, but you do not understand aero one iota...
     
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  24. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

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    No, not really. Ferrari has the "soft suspension" button for when the roads are undulated. In such cases the car is quicker when the suspension in more supple. There is a general rule. according to which a suspension should soak up as many bumps as possible, without compromising composure.
     
  25. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    Untrue. Depends on the surface. At a track like Monza, one needs ultimate precision, hence the stiffest possible suspension (that can also ride the curbs). At the Ring, a much softer set-up is required.
     

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