mid engine corvette qtr panels leaked photo

I tried 3 separate times to buy an Exige several years ago and no one would insure the car. Not Hagerty, not Grundy. NO one. I had no issues insuring other exotics.

The fragile composite clams killed those cars and you can find whole dealerships (Florida) with salvage title Lotus cars which is fine if you live in a state okay with salvage cars or just want a track car.

Lotus killed their own market. Georgia will not register salvage / repaired cars without much drama and pain, and they hate Lotus VINs with a passion. My 3 Esprit's were enough of a headache and the cars were utter crap too.

 

Re the "waaa not manual" comments:

" But please, let Corvette engineering boss Tadge Juechter lay it out in stark terms:

When I asked Corvette lead engineer Tadge Juechter at the reveal of the 2020 Corvette on Thursday if there is any chance the manual will come back, he replied simply: “No.”

Juechter said a manual-equipped Corvette wouldn’t sell well enough to make it worth a supplier’s effort to develop.

“We couldn’t find anybody honestly who’d be willing to do it. Because just like the automatic, the DCT, it would have to be a bespoke manual,” Juechter said. “It’s low volume, very expensive. The reason is it’s a low-volume industry. That industry is dying—building manual transmissions.”

Dying, he says! There’s no mincing words here. We are truly in an age when the manuals are an endangered species as DCTs and even torque converter-based automatics get better at daily driving and nailing the lap times that are so important to the marketing copy.

That’s true even on legit sports cars like the Corvette. Juechter told the website that the manual take-rate on the ‘Vette dropped to just 15 percent, and that’s true even on really hardcore models like the Z06. Fifteen percent! On the Z06! “And as soon as we offer the automatic, everybody buys the automatic,” Juechter said."

Even Z06 buyers preferred autos. And yes it may have to do with mostly older folks buying Vettes. But I am 47 and not over weight and I bought a paddle shift Z51 because of all the traffic around me and i have had many, many manual cool cars.

So the C8 base is not getting a manual. Photos show the DCT can be adopted to a clutch pedal style manual and there are holes int he front hubs for AWD later.

So the no manuals I don't want to buy is a lame reason to not enjoy modern cars.


https://jalopnik.com/get-over-it-the-c8-corvette-is-not-getting-a-manual-ge-1836639481

 

Historically GM hasn't had a switch to disable the start/stop function.
Not sure if the C8 will change that.

 

Heres some food for thought.

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayman-gt4/22886/new-porsche-cayman-gt4-2019-review-its-a-bit-special

 

As much as I call myself a "purist" (I like round taillights, FE layout, and manual transmissions), the emotion is off the charts with Corvette. Unfortunately, emotion doesn't pay the bills, and a good product manager / team knows what the market wants. Guess what? It AIN'T manual transmissions. The bigger issue is it AIN'T even CARS, so now we have US manufacturers cancelling entire product lines because they can't sell them.

Anyone that is a dissenter need only look at Harley Davidson, which is struggling mightily after years of riding a wave. Their market practically bullied anything other than air-cooled, pushrod, twin-cylinder cruisers. The Buell died, MV Agusta was a mess, and dealers - DEALERS - resisted Harley's attempt to update them so they would be more consumer friendly.

They came through it, but the damage wass done. No one under the age of 50 wants a Harley, at least not in any meaningful volume. Management didn't FORCE the company to follow the market, and they will pay dearly for it. In fact, under Keith Wandell, they regressed back into heavyweight cruisers, which was a huge mistake (and hiring Wandell will go down in history as the primary reason the company is going to fade into oblivion).

GM has a GEM with Corvette. It's a car that sells in reasonable volume with the highest margin of any other product in their portfolio (including trucks). If you include licensing, the revenue they generate is significant - over $1B annually. They KNOW people aren't buying manual transmission cars, and with the HIGHEST DOH inventory in ALL OF NORTH AMERICA, they do NOT want to add even 1 more car to that list. NOT ONE.

Smart move, even though I hate it. It's clear that the days of the manual transmission are over. We should be thankful that the days of American sports cars isn't over - at least not yet. That day is coming, though, unless Corvette (and to a lesser extent, Ford's Mustang) can continue to sway buyers.

 

The manual days are not over, but like at ferrari and lambo they may be over for the vette. Aston brought back the manual as did porche on the Gt3/4. Its a high performance driver engaged with the machine niche for the road. Im guessing vette simply does not need to go there. Its a modern car and is what it is.

 

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZGCJu2OaAg

Cool video and we get to see the car in scale.
The weight, just look at the sheer mass of that rear hatch, thats the two pairs of golf clubs compromise, plus the hatch provides no structure nor does the roof, so stiffness/reinfocement had to come somewhere.

I can see a bolted in roof car being waaay stiffer, and if you dont need the big hatch and can pay for some lightweight bits waay lighter. The bones are there for the more focussed vette.

 

Of course some will offer it, but effectively, it's over - it's not something used in volume anymore.

I took my road test on a manual. I never owned an automatic until 2006, after over 20 years of driving. There was a time when all the cars from Japan were almost ALWAYS manual transmission.

That's done. Heck, you used to be able to get many SUVs in a manual - not anymore.

There will always be corner cases as you point out. But as a mass consumed feature, it's not. It makes a lot of sense for GM to move Corvette away from it, and to be honest, the DCT with paddle shifting is "close enough".

 

How is it a joke? Because your car loses? It's a well thought out, numbers laden test that shows the ability of the cars.

And by the way, what $10K mods are you going to do to an Elise to make it track faster than a C7 GS????
That's just crazy talk. You are talking about knocking 20-30 SECONDS a lap off at VIR Grand. For $10K? Gimme a break.

And in terms of chassis rigidity...just because you SAY the C7 chassis is "Bendy" doesn't make it so. Give me some FACTS, not your biased opinion.
You praise the C6 Z06 constantly, then I point out that the C7 chassis is considerably stiffer, and they you say that just proves how bad the C6 Z06 was....you change your story more than a 10 year old.

 

Ok whatever
I spend most weekends at the track so I know what I see.

Course magazines sell cars

 

Manuals used to be the less expensive option and provided way better acceleration. As we know that’s not true anymore and undoubtably paddles accelerate faster and have more closely packed gears so between shift times and gearing there’s no way to beat a paddle. That’s before we get into the issue of driver focus on track/corners which paddles enhance.

On road most people have to drive I. Traffic wher paddles are essentially an at.

Against paddles is the significant diminution of driver engagement when you’re not going 10/10ths which is pretty much all backroad driving. Since my street driving in a sports car is all recreational I way prefer a stick for the street. For track Iim Convinced paddles are just superior in every way and in the same car will significantly improve laptimes. Alsonpaddles have proven to be reliable.

Now if you daily drive your sporty gt car and have to deal with traffic why wouldn’t you paddle, and for track paddle, but for weekend backroad drives a stick enhances the experience significantly. As some percentage of people buy fast cars for the immersive experience sticks will be around for a while. I suppose like vinyl records they’re seeing a niche resurgence

 

Calling it now. There will be a Pontiac Fiero body kit at some point.

 

Maybe even a ford Gt kit, for a 400k discount.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you but - my wife is short and likes to sit higher and needs to haul stuff occasionally so a SUV is the right vehicle for her. I use the SUV to take equipment to go skiing. I absolutely hate driving slug cars particularly driving up mountain hills at altitude. Soooo we got a Porsche Cayenne S. It worked well for us but the wife didn't like the ride and we had 120k on the clock so we ordered a new Cayenne GTS. She absolutely loves the car as it has the color and the options she wanted and enough performance (440 hp) but is not Turbo S either.

 

Agreed, I have been a Porsche guy since 1968 always owning at least a couple of them. Porsches have always been priced anywhere from 50% to a 100% premium over a "similar" performing Vette. The Vette is a lot of value for what it is. They have always hurt my back when ever I have tried them but I must admit I never test drove the C7. I think the C8 appears to be a good offering - looks similar to a McLaren again for way less $$$$. Not sure I would buy one but I will definately give it a test drive.

 

So, you can SEE a chassis bending on the track? Whatever.
You realize that NO ONE anywhere, in 6 years the C7 variants have been on sale, has EVER raised any concern or commented on any C7 lack of rigidity, right? But you can SEE it. You know the C7 ZR1 with 295 MORE horsepower than a C7GS, uses the EXACT same chassis. Based on your EYES, that should NEVER work. How would your beloved Lotus chassis react with 295 more horsepower and NO mods to the chassis?

Just because YOU track a lot does NOT make you smarter/better than the Car and Driver boys. The fact that the C&D crowd got a C7 ZR1 to within 2 seconds of Jim Mero's C7 ZR1 time speaks volumes for their skill level. To dismiss it as "selling magazine" fluff is ridiculous.

 

Pretty amazing render...like right on the money....

 

Every car has a chasiis that bends, the question is by how much, where and when. The more it bends the less reliably predictably the rest of the suspension can work(esp at the limit), and for that matter the harder you have to make the ride to compensate(and to compensate for weight), which then limits suspesion compliance, something key to dealing with bumps rumble strips etc..

From the corvette forum itself, look at the second paragraph for context.

"C7's frame rigidity is on par, and exceeds European counterparts when speaking in terms of "open air" platforms. This is the debate and issue some have had with the design philosophy of the C7, designed solely as an opened air platform. Initial design targets/CAD indications were in the 14,500 NM/Degree range for the C7, which exceeds opened top Porsches, BMW's, etc...or is at least on par.

Look at dedicated coups though...Aston, Mclaren, Porsche...and torsional rigidity numbers are damn near double for dedicated hard roof coupes. Even a 996 era Porsche Turbo was in excess of 27k nm/deg.

With the C7, it's rigidity has been steadily improved upon, with each generation of Corvette. It should be pointed out though, that even in the C5 era, where the car with the newly introduced hydroformed steel frame exhibited an approx rigidity of 9,800 nm/deg, the Z06 was profoundly stiffer with a fixed roof. It's a real shame that the fixed roof has been abandoned in the C7."

If I had the time to look it up for you, Probst or one of the other one lap wonder testers explained that chasiis rigidity is this cars achilies heel, and its unpredictable at the limit compared to almost any other in its performance class, esp the higher powered versions. You remind me of the people who went ape when the C6 interior was called low rent only to laud the C7 interir which was almost good..

C7 vettes were cool cars for what they were. they used excess hp to stay in the game when the rest of the car was not fully up to it. The C7 z06/zr1 Could fire off some quick laps but couldnt sustain and was a handful even in pro hands near the limit., the pick of the bunch(on track) was the Gs because it at least had power in balance with the chasiis and could sustain consistently lap after lap.

In any event we have the Me car to look forwards to, hopefully its righted many of the limitations of the c5-c7 platform. I for one am looking forwards to something truly world class that we don't have to make bang for the buck excuses for regardless of price.

 

^^^^^
And you've owned how many C5/C6/C7's???? How many Corvettes have you driven on the track in the last 5 years?

See, that's just as stupid an argument as "I track nearly every weekend"

Which car is more likely to bite someone not YOUR level...
C7 GS or C7 ZR1?

Now the same question...
Porsche 911 Turbo S or GT2RS?

Faster cars by very definition are harder to drive, require more talent, etc, because everything happens...FASTER. Europe is LITTERED with guys that were ROCKSTARS in Formula 3 and could not hack it in Formula 1.

I NEVER suggested the C7 Z06/ZR1 were "easy" cars to drive at their very high limits. But to hear you tell the story, they're deathtraps...and I assume you know that because you've driven both multiple times?????
Don't tell me magazines don't know and then drag out Randy Pobst (Motor Trend)

 

They have actually, but only as recently as some MY2018 models like the Cruze, Malibu and MY2019 Silverado’s

I’m fairly certain the C8 won’t have that feature other than the AFM system like in the c7’s, a feature variates depending on the driving mode.

 

To side step the current debate, my thoughts on a manual will always remain. And I am perfectly fine if I never buy a new Corvette again. Its interesting that all C6 Z06/ZR1's were manuals and the C7 started offering autos. The whole debate about autos is the future is because vettes are mass ordered by dealers who half ass configure them (these guys should be fired too) in a manner that they think they can sell. So why is it the lots are full of autos but you cannot find a manual anywhere? If someone is wanting a new vette 9/10 they will settle for whatever they run across and work out a deal for. Everyone here has settled for something other than what they were really after.

 

The C8 does not have stop/start but it does have AFM.
Tadge spoke of stop/start early in the C7 intro back in 2013. They tried it on some of the early C7 prototypes and he said point blank that he "hated it" and all the customers would hate it as well.

 

Well, I don't believe him. Sorry but I don't.

Start stop is an option when running the car. So, what's the big idea? If people don't like it they will just not use it.

Why did they not do it then? Probably cost, weight and size restrictions of a larger battery, more electronics, and a beefier starter motor. And also complaints about how the car starts and stops the motor (vibration, noise, etc). But he can't say that so he just says "people will hate it" because it sounds cooler.

 

Lack of a manual is disappointing, but I understand the dollars/cents of the decision.
All of my Corvettes have been manuals but I had already decided (assuming the C8 offered a DCT) that I was going DCT. After 46 years of manuals, I figured I'd been a "Real Man" long enough

 

Just telling you what the man said. If you think he's lying, well, so be it.
The internal bosses for stop/start are in the SBC block, just as the AFM bosses were in the block on LS engines of the C6. Dave Hill (chief engineer) of the C6 stated he could never get the AFM to work smoothly enough to suit him and so no AFM on the C6. As far as stop/start, it is questionable what it gives a manufacturer in terms of EPA mileage increases, based EPA testing protocols. Also, any fuel saving device that can be easily defeated by the driver won't be used in the EPA's testing. The C7 automatics got away with it because the only way the engine WASN'T in AFM mode is if you put in "M" and shifted with the paddles (and you were in Sport or Track mode)