Alfa 8C conversion to manual

Andrew: The engine is actually the first usage of what became the Maserati 4.7 V-8. The transaxle is the same unit as used in the Ferrari 599. I suspect a conversion could be based upon a Ferrari 599 stick shift car. It would be very expensive and after driving the 8C with the 599 gearbox, I cannot see a reason to change. I was never a fan of the paddle shifters until I drove the 8C. In this car, they are fantastic. There are "tricks" to extend clutch life and make the paddle shift cars more user friendly.

 

You still need a pedal box. Its unsure if one would fit in it.

Because it mates with a rear transaxle, it could be possible to use one from a 599. Or, a manual Maserati Coupe might be a cheaper alternative. As long as it connects to the torque tube and fits underneath technically it should work -- aside from mounting points on the chassis.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Maserati-Coupe-6-Speed-Manual-Transmission-Gearbox-Used-/291510239398

I think the entire chassis would have to be removed to even figure out if it's possible. The other issue of course is the limited slip that 8c has. Not sure how you get around that one.

But I think V8 to V8 would be better because of the axle ratios.
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Is the 8c not based on the maserati coupe and did earlier versions of that car not have manual. I think its probably also not too dissimilar to version 1 cali which also had a manual option. In which case it may be mechanicaly plug and play, but no idea about motor electronics.

 

No, it is not based on the Coupe.

 

Pretty sure it's largely based on the Gran Turismo.

Either way, it doesn't matter...Can it be done? Obviously... but neither the 8c or Maserati's came with manual gearbox, so can't take/modify components for the gear stick, which means custom work...to make it look factory definitely need an expert and not a man whose once fiberglassed a subwoofer enclosure .

Won't be cheap, certainly will be cool. Not sure why you want it doing, presumably because the shifts feel damn slow. My answer is MC Stradale gear shift software which should take it down to 60MS, maybe you'll need the same clutch too (not sure if 8c is single or double plate clutch (not to be confused with DCT transmission, entire different thing)

 

The 8C has a twin plate clutch and transaxle like the 599 Ferrari. Shifts are super quick in "sport" mode. No reason to ever want faster shifts.

 

I thought I had read that the shifts are 175 ms which is quite fast but slow by 2007 standards since 599 had shifts at 100 ms in sport mode (and a year later Scuderia was shifting at 60 ms). To me it has always looked like Ferrari limited this car on purpose. Such a beautiful shape but artificially restricted on power (as compared to what the engine could have produced) and transmission.

 

Andrew: Not sure in what mode you drove the 8C. I always use the "manual shift" mode, and after five miles to warm up the gearbox, I put the car in "Sport" mode. Besides having the best exhaust sound ever, the "Sport" mode gives quicker shifts at all speeds, but only the "slam you in the butt" shifts when the throttle is floored. The quicker shifts are easier on the clutch (less slipping) also.

 

Agree entirely. The car is magic as it is. If its ok as is don't touch it.

 

Car has the same F1 shift mechanism and general logic as the 599 of 2006 (or so). Shift's excellently, not sure why you had a poor driving experience, unless you don't like the way 599's from back then shift. They have improved over the years, but it seems they mostly shift faster and perhaps a bit smoother now. For most mere mortals, the shifting speed and smoothness of an circa 2006 - 599 is still pretty good.

I'd love to have an 8C, it's on my stretch goal list.

 

Just saw this thread but thought I should say that Alfa Romeo already built a manual 8C and it was tested by motor journalists before the production version was launched. I remember the journalist saying the gearchange was notchy but in any case in theory it can be done since that version had it already!

 

You're referring to the Concept cars, which have significant technical differences compared to the production 8C.

In any case, a manual conversion would mechanically be possible, the complicated part would be keeping the electronics happy.

A probably easier mod would be retrofitting a faster TCU (along with the small mechanical modifications) to make it shift like a MC Stradale.

 

The guys who converted a 360CS to a 6 speed could probably do it. Would cost some $$ though...

 

Has anyone done the faster TCU approach on an 8C or an F1 equipped Maserati GTS?

 

Not sure, to be honest. I know the GTS already has Sofast4 with Superfast (Superfast 2 on the MC Stradale), while the 8C runs Sofast3+. According to factory docs, there are some transmission hardware differences introduced with Sofast4, and some more with Sofast4 w/Superfast 2, so I'm guessing those modifications would have to be applied as well, in addition to a TCU programmed with the newer software (the TCU hardware itself is still the same CFC301).

 

I would like to reignite this thread for no other reason than to obtain some knowledge. I have an 8C and have zero intention of ever selling it. However, I am a 3 pedal fan. Always have been, always will be. I don't care if it takes me 3ms or 3 seconds to change gear, it is all about control, sidways with 3 has more options than 2. Anyway, now we are a few years (and a Covid break) on a fair number of 599s I gather have been converted to manual. So can it be done to the 8C? I was under the impression that the 8C was based on a Granturismo MC Stradale on a QP cut down floor pan. Happy to be corrected and from what MacGeek says, then I am misinformed. Could I use an early QP manual pedal box with shift mechanism? I think it would be reasonably easy to aesthetically do it, but how much does the Gearbox TCU interact with the engine ECU? Will it get upset if it is no longer present? Or am I wasting my time and should just put the idea back in its box?

 

The 8c is much shorter than the GranTurismo, it probably shares a chassis w/ the Gransport or Gransport Spyder (even shorter). I'm just guessing, but I would think this conversion could largely follow the 599 path, with the major caveat of many more custom parts and coding likely required - so maybe 2-3x the cost and time? Where there's a will, there's a way..

 

No it shares the Turismo chassis, but modified.

 

The wheel base is very close to the Gransports but nearly a foot shorter than the GranTurismo. Seems to me the car is more likely a frankenstein of the Gransport chassis, GranTurismo S engine, and GranTurismo S/599 gearbox. I'm just thinking why would they create a new chassis then immediately chop a foot off when there was an existing one that was proven with the same approximate dimensions

 

8c and Granturismo chassis are based on the Quattroporte platform simply shortened as required for their individual applications. The gearbox that is in the 8C, Granturismo "MC shift" and Ferrari 599 can all be converted to 3 pedals, but it will be no simple job. Look at what EAG went through to get an "acceptable" 599 conversion done. The process will have all of the same challenges plus a few more.

 

Mechanically, it can probably be done with combination of OEM parts (turret, perhaps clutch pedal [wonder if there's room in the pedal box?], outer gearbox actuator), a modified OEM rod linkage, and some non-OEM bits (clutch master/clutch lines). Software would need to be developed. The interior modifications would take some vision/skill to design/execute an OEM-feeling result.

@brogenville can probably weigh in from a FAR more qualified perspective.

 

SO the truth is that I've never managed to find the parts diagrams for the 8C to be able to tell what parts it shares with other models. From the image above, the gearbox (what I can see of it) looks very much like the same one found in a Maserati 4200. You may well be able to get a lot of the parts you would need then from a 4200 or of course a Ferrari 360. No idea what the pedal box setup is though.

I's say with shift cables, it could definitely be done. With the right people and at the right price of course!