Will Pista Production end in Dec 2019?

Like I said, I get my info from the dealer.

What do you mean by the last bit? The F8 has been for sale for what, 6 months now? When it debuted and became available for sale, Ferrari were still selling Pistas. Whether or not it makes sense to sell F8's and Pistas at the same time is one thing, but it looks like Ferrari has been doing just that for most of the spring and early summer at least.

 

Sweet.

 

There is a difference from actual production to taking orders. Dealers have accepted deposits but no orders have been placed. My understanding is production starts q1 2020 and that they will not be producing the f8 along with the Pista. They pushed the f8 from q4 to q1 so they could keep production going on the Pista until dec 2019.

 

Let me clarify- they will not build the Pista and F8 at the same time. Pista production will end and F8 production will begin. F8 is a much higher volume car than Pista and Ferrari will use all capacity to build it.

I’ll just say I completely disagree with the information you are posting.

 

Different cars, different customers. The F8 is a fill-car and fully optioned even more expensive than a Pista. Due to the short 2-year run it will be as limited as the Pista. The only points behind building them side by side are economy and optimised profit for the company. Ferrari had to fill the gaps between the changes in European emission laws and they did very well from an economic perspective.

Dealers and factory have always been talking about a production until the end of 2020. The local dealer f.e. still hast to deliver 30+ coupes and most of their spider allocations in 2020.
I experienced that the 2020 deliveries all have to be specced in 2019. Most people I know who are receiving 2020 cars have allocations from January to April next year.

There is also the fact that Ferrari just announced a three month delay for special paint jobs and tailor made Pistas, which gives a hint of an ongoing production in 2020.

 

Sorry- you lost me when you said a fully optioned F8 is more expensive than a pista. Pista base msrp is 345k. F8 is 275ish.

I didn’t read anything beyond that.

 

What dealer is giving you this information?? I have heard from 3 different dealers that production ends this year and deliveries will be Q1 2020. Also how in the world do you get a f8 being more than a Pista? Are you talking to a fully optioned f8 to a base Pista? That would be a silly comparison.

 

If it’s on the internet, it must be true.

Let’s see 30 pista coupes at one dealership
Production(not deliveries) going well into 2020
Allocations for coupes and spiders are still out there waiting to be filled

Again- if you type it on the internet it must be true.

 

I was thinking that same thing. Must be a huge dealership. One of the ones I deal with is getting a total of 8, another is getting a total of 13. I haven’t heard of a single allocation still unspoken for in the US.

 

GPFs = lots of new costs, engine modifications, ecu re-programming, re-homologation, and more...

I think the GPF influence is quite intense and it is all about avoiding GPF related costs and development in established models that are nearing end of production, very much so....remember, the GPF 'bomb' is only known for the past 2.5 years...it was not something known for many years in advance and therefore could of more easily been worked into production...

 

You can't take your knowledge of how the USA market works and apply it as a template for how the European markets work. I would not be so quick to dismiss the information provided by A.B!

 

I actually think it’s pretty close. According to Ferrari’s 2018 financial earnings the US market was 16% and the EU was 15%. The actual units sold were only 39 units apart. However, market share has nothing to really do with the conversation. A lot of the people have heard the Pista production will end this year and there are a few people who say it will go on for another entire year. I guess we can all wait 5 months and see. Unless they release that info on this Friday’s quarterly report.

 

The new emissions requirements go into effect for the EU as of January 2020. This means that any car made after January 2020 must have the GPF installed. This only affects the EU.

So Ferrari has a couple choices-

1- In December 2019, stop pista production, adjust the line and start F8 production with all those cars being fit with the GPF

2- Continue to make Pistas well into 2020 but any Pista headed to the EU will be fitted with GPF and any car going outside the EU will be shipped without GPF

3- Continue to make Pistas well into 2020 and all Pistas produced in 2020 will have GPF. At the same time, start F8 production so at the same time on the same line you have both Pistas and F8s being produced.



Which scenario seems most likely? #1 seems most plausible to me but what the hell do I know?

 

Bingo. Car is nearing the end of its production cycle- Pista- and Ferrari is going to retool and reengineer the entire car just to get a few more months of production to satisfy the GPF requirement? I don’t think so.

Pista production ends in December. Take it to the bank.

 

Orders have actually been placed in the system (F8's completely spec'd, options confirmed and sent to Ferrari). I promise you that

 

Do you know if other car manufacturers are adding GPF - say McLaren for example?

 

What’s stopping Ferrari from producing the F8 and Pista concurrently? The Portofino is built on the same line so surely they can accommodate this level of manufacturing complexity.

While logic and info from a handful of dealers may suggest a Dec 2019 end of production, we’ll have to wait before drawing any final conclusions.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat

 

GPF


Unless you think they are going to redesign the entire Pista engine for a few months production to comply with EU emissions requirements.

 

Several. One big one is Porsche

 

As was noted some time ago it is NOT just a question of building the Pista. The car must be registered in the EU country for the client by the cut off date to avoid the GPF requirement.

 

At this time, only GDI IC engines are affected by the EU/China Particle Number regulations (also known as Particulate Matter)

GDI =Gasoline DIrect Injection

McLaren is unaffected because they are using a 1989 Port Fuel Injection engine designed by Nissan as their basis...key is, Port Fuel Injection, not Gasoline Direct Injection..GDI is much 'dirtier' in terms of particulate emitted than Port Injection engines..GDI engines are more fuel efficient than PFI, etc...pluses and minuses for both:
https://www.aftonchemical.com/Generic/PFI-vs-GDI#

Pretty much the entire VAG group (Porsche, VW, Audi, Lamborghini, etc), BMW, Mercedes, Ford, pretty much all using GDI IC engines that want to continue selling into the EU/China will require GPF to meet regulations --- the major's were to meet those EU regulations in September 2018, Ferrari being a small volume manufacturer was given more time (this thread indicates a possible rumor of Ferrari being given some 90 days extra from 1/1/2020 to comply, but I have not found any source for that...)

 

You have consistently had the best info on the new emissions requirement on this site. Thanks for sharing!

 

Isn't the F8 engine the same as the Pista? To quote chief technical officer, Michael Leiters:

‘The F8 is a significant step forward,’ says Leiters. ‘The heart of the new car is the new 710bhp engine, the same as the 488 Pista’s; the lighter engine internals, the titanium conrods – everything. This is definitely the most important part of the Tributo.’

Source:

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/ferrari/f8-tributo/

Therefore, the only main differences between the two cars are the body (aero) and some carbon panels for the Pista. Chassis, engine, gearbox, all the same, with a few software/ECU differences. The other big difference with the F8 is the GPF inclusion on the exhaust, to quote Leiters again (same source):

‘We have a new exhaust system which negates the impact of new emissions tests, and includes a new particulate filter."

So this opens up another set of questions:

1) If Pista production were to continue into 2020, will GPF be required on the Pista? Based on the various threads on this topic, the answer seems to be yes, due to regulations. And if this is the case, they already have a plug and play template ready for GPF inclusion for the Pista/F8 engine, as per the last quote. Ready to manufacture, using the F8 GPF engine template, in a different body.

2) Conceptually, since only the body and GPF inclusion are the main differences between F8 and Pista, theoretically they could have parallel production of the two cars. I'm no manufacturing expert, but it seems logical that the two can be produced at the same time, on the same V8 production line (body is constructed off-site, at Scaglietti), given these relatively small differences (body excepted). Any comments on this?

Very smart of Ferrari to introduce the F8, as a "new car", using nearly all the same fundamental components of the Pista, and therefore potentially allowing for continued production on the Pista (which is nearly the same car) on the same production line. Basic economies of scale.

 

Thank you for that info. I can trust that!!!! Any chance of Q4 deliveries for those whose orders have been accepted?

 

So then all current Pistas have GPF already installed right? Got it.