488 valve controller or just pull the vacuum lines off of the actuators ? | FerrariChat

488 valve controller or just pull the vacuum lines off of the actuators ?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by wojteki, Jul 31, 2019.

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  1. wojteki

    wojteki Rookie

    Feb 1, 2016
    47
    Jackson, NJ USA
    Full Name:
    Wojtek I.
    Having moved onto the 488 from the F430 (almost all but straight-piped ) , the one thing that i am having a hard tine letting go of is how quiet the 488 is :( . Yea, its a little more synthetic of a drive also, compared to the more raw feeling of the F430, but its leaps and bounds better of a ride overall and I am overall thrilled!

    To start i would like to open up the valves, and am thinking of a controller ( Forza ) , but on the other hand with how quiet it is, if I wanted to just always keep the valves open, I could just pull off the vacuum lines from the valves and cap off the hose. It should not affect the long term operation on the car as the valves are behind turbochargers anyway ... am I thinking correctly here ?

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  2. flifer

    flifer Karting

    Mar 3, 2016
    160
    Miami
    Full Name:
    Mike
    My dealer pulled the valves for free, the 488 isn't loud. I've never felt the need to drive with the valves closed, even cruising on the highway.
     
  3. Hopeful

    Hopeful Karting

    May 31, 2019
    141
    Vero Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Tony M.
    You are correct, you can just pull the vacuum lines and cap them. I just installed the Forza Controller in my 488 Spider last week. I have not yet reverted back to factory operation except momentarily once or twice just remind myself how much better it sounds with the valves open. I do think there might be times on long drives on the highway that I would switch back. Definitely do one or the other. You will be much much happier.
     
  4. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jul 3, 2006
    27,855
    Aspen CO 81611
    Full Name:
    FelipeNotMassa
  5. Foxmod

    Foxmod Karting

    Jun 17, 2012
    149
    Midlands, UK
    Full Name:
    David
    pulled mine for the same reason (coming from a Scud, then Speciale) on my 488 Spider, so pleased I did, it makes it sound the way it should. No regrets at all.
     
    wojteki likes this.
  6. tickerhound

    tickerhound Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2016
    362
    IL
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Another vote for pulling and plugging the vacuum hoses. The 488 is much more impressive sounding when this is done and never was offensive imo. Also did this to my 458.
     
  7. Cigarzman

    Cigarzman F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Precisely this. Forget the controller it’s just a waste of money IMHO. Best ,Kirk.
     
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  8. Robert P

    Robert P Formula Junior

    Feb 10, 2014
    358
    London
    I also had mine pulled by the dealer from new. So much better than stock, but never gets too loud.
     
  9. Rbwiii

    Rbwiii Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2014
    605
    Cali
    Full Name:
    BW
    The Forza can be set up to have the valves open on startup...I did mine that way and always had the option to put the valves back in auto...
     
  10. wojteki

    wojteki Rookie

    Feb 1, 2016
    47
    Jackson, NJ USA
    Full Name:
    Wojtek I.
    Thank you everybody! Looks like I am going to be passing in a controller and just pulling the lines :D

    Voy
     
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  11. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    I am going to take the opposite stand. There are times you want to not be as noticed. I love the sound with the valves open but not when I come into my neighborhood at midnight or am sneaking out at 7 in the morning. It is also not supercool to sound all loud and racy when I am driving in a line of cars, see a police officer and am trying not to attract a lot of attention or sound like I am driving aggressively. In those situations, I will close the valves. I have been pulled over in a different loud car because a police officer "heard" me driving aggressively. They didn't see or clock me but they were pissed!

    There is a time for noise and a time for quiet. The controller is cheap compared to a ticket!

    I love my Forza controller.
     
    DefunctNeurons likes this.
  12. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2004
    6,299
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    Ron
    Where are these hoses? Can you pull them yourselves?
     
  13. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    May 23, 2013
    11,048
    AUSTRALIA
    Full Name:
    ANGELO
    By pass the valves. Dealer did it for me. Sounds great. Want to be quiet go to 5th gear. No issue with the 488 heaps of torque
     
  14. Rbwiii

    Rbwiii Formula Junior

    Aug 9, 2014
    605
    Cali
    Full Name:
    BW
    You can pull them yourself...there is 2 of them. Then you need to plug them. GTB is simpler than Spider. May have to pull be per on Spider....
     
  15. Hopeful

    Hopeful Karting

    May 31, 2019
    141
    Vero Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    Tony M.
    Yes you can do it yourself but it involves removing the rear wheel liners or the rear bumper. I had a shop with a lift do it and it took 3 hrs to install the Forza. Would probably be 2 hrs to just plug the vacuum line. Either course of action requires dropping, or at least loosening, the diffuser so you can get to the necessary bolts. The solenoids are about 10" behind, 2" inboard, and roughly even with the top of the rear springs. If you look on the Forza Componenti website, under Support / Vehicle Supplements there is a selection for the 488 with a write-up with pictures to guide you through.
     
  16. 458 Spider 0414

    458 Spider 0414 Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 7, 2017
    493
    MIAMI, FLORIDA
    Full Name:
    RAY
    Just pull the valves... Let the Ferrari dealer do it. You’ll gonna love it...

    Ray,
     
  17. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
    3,135
    Sounds good with the valves pulled. Dealer plugged mine for free.
     
  18. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2004
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    Ron
    How about on a Pista?
     
  19. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 3, 2006
    27,855
    Aspen CO 81611
    Full Name:
    FelipeNotMassa
    Never had a ticket in my 458 spider with the lines pulled. In the 458 the baffles open at 3,000 rpm in race mode and 5,000 rpm in sport mode.
     
  20. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
    Australia
    #20 Shadowfax, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    Going by the what the head techs advised, who've been to the factory to receive all the necessary training on Pista, the word is playing around with the valves or altering the exhaust in any way is an absolute no go.

    As also explained, with 488 the engine will only give optimum performance with the valves connected and operating in the standard setting - disconnected there is a performance penalty - again clearly explained when they installed the Forza B2a valve controller. The head tech assured that during high performance driving, leave the controller in stock.

    The Forza controller was very good to have when cruising around - in vales open mode - so the car didn't sound too much like a Lexus during times when rolling with other cars of same intent. That said there were many times during slow driving or freeway running that I much preferred to drive the car in the stock setting and was so thankful I had the option to do so.

    For me the Forza B2a controller was the best mod i put on my 488 period. Having options at the push of a button is priceless. I only wish I could install one on my Pista.

    PS. To say the controller is a waste of money is atypical to owners who either rarely drive their car or, don't drive it for long or far enough when they do or, simply haven't educated themselves from those who actually know all about the engine.
     
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  21. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    So the question on the Pista is, will you simply lose a little performance or might the change in backpressure cause some kind of harm? Or course Ferrari wouldn't endorse it in either car. I know the Pista is louder to begin with but does anyone with theirs feel the need for more (mine is at least a month or two out but is in all probably built at this point so I will know first hand soon!).

    For those looking to install yourself, this was my thread about my self install on a 488 coupe:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/forza-controller-install-on-488-with-pics.593911/
     
  22. wojteki

    wojteki Rookie

    Feb 1, 2016
    47
    Jackson, NJ USA
    Full Name:
    Wojtek I.
    I wonder if that is actually true on the loss of performance with the valves always open. I could see the factory recommending this as they just don't want anyone changing anything on the cars, especially with cars being able to be renewed under warranty for as long as they are.

    Anything behind a turbo is usually fair game to pull / remove, with ideally having as little back pressure and restriction downstream. The turbo itself is already providing a tremendous amount of back pressure. ..then again, what do i know compared to professionals :p ....

    To me with valves open or closed, the 488 is just tame and quiet. Sounds superb, but quiet. I was ruined on my last F-car ... F430 with fabspeed sport cats, headers and open valves. It was stupid loud o_O ;) .... I don't want nearly as much volume from the 488.. but definitely more, and not being allowed to do a custom exhaust under warranty, the valves is all i got to work with.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BzmmLWvhbaV/


    I have yet to dig around, but if the valves are behind the wheel wells, I might as well just install the Forza controller while opening it up anyway .


    Voy
     
  23. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Jun 10, 2016
    4,066
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    #23 Shadowfax, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    From what was explained, the operation of the valves is an integral part of the ECU's overall functionality. When I see him next (should be with in the next 10 days) i'll get some more specifics on it if you wish. As head tech he comes across as really knowing his stuff on these cars (Pista and 488). With 488 he wasn't adverse to putting the valve controller on the 488 but he did take the time to explain there are drawbacks, but with Pista he said it is definitely not possible and the engine won't run right. The day I asked he and the other techs were around the lunch-table - he'd just got back from italy earlier that week from the Pista technical training. The topic came up as I asked him would it be ok if I had the workshop swap out the Forza off my 488 onto my Pista when it arrived and the conversation went on from there.

    PS Wojteki. Yes. He said disconnecting the valves permanently would compromise the output. He explained why at the time but I can no longer recall the details as I was just happy to use it for low speed running as the car is very tame at idle and low speed as you know. Had something to do with the way the turbos hold boost and bleed off excess - said the Ferrari set up operates differently to all other turbo engines in this area and the valves operate in unison with the boost. I will ask him again when I'm out there soon. Hopefully he will be available.
     
  24. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2004
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    Ron
    100 % sure it won't work. My expensive mistake of trying...
     
  25. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    398
    Mid-Atlantic
    Can you explain more? Would love to know more details. Feel free to PM if you don't want to post publicly.
     

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