Going to look at a Mistral in July. Scare on details at the moment, but I believe it's a 4.0. My intent will be to buy it, re-do it to a point, then find it a new owner. I don't think it'll need a restoration, just a freshening of some pieces etc. Are there any blatant trouble areas to look for on these? I've ONLY been around 100% project cars before, but never a nice driver as this one should be. Any help appreciated Thanks!
Unfortunately, the bottom engine number, does not match the top manifold number, and neither match the chassis tag number. Really unsure on what to call it, value it at or do with it. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The bottom engine number is not the same as the number on the chassis or the number on the head between the valve covers. That number can be identified by the factory when you order the papers
Eugene, he had a spare 3.7 engine (I'm assuming no "A1" makes it a 3.7?), with a matching bottom engine number (read ...*1588), and head. So I don't know what to believe? 3.7 Image Unavailable, Please Login 4.0 in the car Image Unavailable, Please Login
Elliot, Mr. Collina at the factory confirmed the original color as 'Oro Longchamps' however, capturing this color in person was very hard. To me, it does not look gold, but more "rose" brown/tannish almost. It's very pretty and has an almost chameleon like change in different lights. This car had an older repaint, and I think they missed making it 'Oro Longchamps'
Eugene, as I suspected, all three numbers, chassis, head and bottom engine stamp, left the factory matching on Mistrals (I'm sure there are some instances of blown engines and replacement blocks used), but Fabio himself emailed me back this AM to confirm this. So this car, sadly, has 3 different numbers, and none match.
I understand a certain obsession regarding racing cars' chassis numbers. But for production cars, is it really important whether the engine has been replaced? The replacement engine #001 might be the one Giovanni was about to install in chassis #002 on this grey morning in November 1957. But then he went out to lunch and after that, he installed engine #003, the engine which was sitting next to engine #001 (and then he went on to stamp it #002, like the chassis). It's the same engine, so what? If later they swapped the engine with one of a different specification, a 4 litre for a 3,7 it's a different story, but even then, it's not a big deal. Or would you prefer to have the original engine with a cracked block? If the car is otherwise in great condition, it is just a kind of psychological barrier, it might even give you a bit of space for haggling the price. Much more important IMHO are matching body parts, as they were adapted individually.
Perhaps you are talking about a different lower engine number than I am. The number I am referring to is located on the left front of the engine just behind water pump. For example my 1965 Mistral has chassis number 109*374 with matching engine number 109*374 stamped on the front of the head between the valve covers. The engine number located on the lower engine is 020 and this is confirmed by the factory documents supplied by Mr Collina for this car. This engine number 020 is also stamped on several parts on the internal engine such as the main bearing caps and the oil pan. I have not seen an engine number anywhere on the block that matches the Chassis number or the number on the head.
Hi Gene, Actually it is very common on the inline 6 cylinder engines for the chassis number to be stamped on the block, just above the starter motor. On my ex-Mistral spyder the block, head and chassis all had the same number. The photo below shows the block number of Mistral #402. You are correct that there is also the internal number and that can be used to verify to which chassis the engine was assigned. In Ken's particular case the block is stamped with a chassis number and that number does not match the head number nor does it match the number on the chassis itself, so there is no doubt it is a mismatch. The factory not always stamped the chassis number on the block. It is possible that Mistral #374 never had the chassis number stamped. Ivan Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks Ivan. I have a spare engine and you are correct it has a number stamped on the back similar to the 3500s. And in this case it does match the head number. Thanks for confirming the info.
This issue is, he's not a "car guy" in the sense he didnt even know (allegedly) that these numbers didnt match or even existed as a "tool" to show originality. So he's stuck on a number that he thinks is fair for the car, and after inspecting it, I'm now nowhere near "his" number, because if I buy it, bring it up to par, and sell it, then I'm stuck explaining to the next guy why it isn't numbers matching. I get that many cars may have left factories like you explain above, but to me it's a big deal when things don't match.
You are trying to apply logic and common sense to car values .... it does not work that way. You could argue that a Mistral should be valued as an Aston Martin DB6 as both have alloy bodies and a straight six engine with similar performance. As we know, they are not even close. Same with the Ghibli and the Daytona. A similar argument could also be made about a replacement engine whose only difference is that the number does not match the one that left the factory. You definitely will not be able to tell the difference when you are driving the Mistral but you sure will tell the difference when it comes to sell it. To be financially successful in this hobby (or at least not get beat up too bad) you must follow the golden rule of always starting a project with "the right car". It is very difficult to make "the wrong car" (ie: mismatched engine, etc) into "the right car"; unless you are lucky enough to locate its original engine. On the other hand, you can take the Ghia 5000GT, which needs a complete restoration and perhaps 30%+ of its metal replaced, into something the market will consider authentic. I am not saying this makes any sense, but that is the way the market values these cars. Ivan
For another data point, I checked my car and the VIN plate, head, and block all have the complete number AM109A1*1662* stamped on them. Curiously, the numbers on the block are stamped in the opposite direction as #402.
