360 - ~ (( Need Your Help!! )) 360 6-Speed Manual gears won't engage when car is hot | FerrariChat

360 ~ (( Need Your Help!! )) 360 6-Speed Manual gears won't engage when car is hot

Discussion in '360/430' started by OceanSide760, Jul 5, 2019.

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  1. OceanSide760

    OceanSide760 Karting

    Jul 8, 2009
    185
    Guys need your input here. I have a 2003 360 Modena with 6-Speed Manual Transmission (75K miles, clutch & transmission mount has been replaced)

    Recently I realized that the gears won't engage after the car has been driven for a while (gears are totally fine when the engine is cold). When this happens I can't fully engage to 2nd / 3rd gear when I am in 4th gear, and I can hear the "grinding noise" when I put into 5th...

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks for your input.
     
  2. Bigilo

    Bigilo Karting

    Sep 28, 2013
    243
    San Antonio, Texas
    Have you looked at your motor and transmission mounts? As they degrade the position of the transmission changes and pulls the shift cables out of alignment, the motor warming up will affect the cable positions as well. Also Hill Engineering makes a shifter bushing that is metal instead of plastic like the original, my 2004 had similar issues and the Hill bushing fixed it. Good luck!
     
  3. OceanSide760

    OceanSide760 Karting

    Jul 8, 2009
    185
    Thank you. Can you show me the link of the hill engineering bushings? And how many do I need?
     
  4. Bigilo

    Bigilo Karting

    Sep 28, 2013
    243
    San Antonio, Texas
  5. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
    BANNED Silver Subscribed

    Jul 8, 2016
    9,875
    The CSA
    Full Name:
    Me
  6. OceanSide760

    OceanSide760 Karting

    Jul 8, 2009
    185
  7. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
    3,253
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Glen
    Just the one. It's more of a clevis than an actual bush.
     
  8. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Greg Calo
    You might also want to consider bleeding your brakes and clutch M/C and replacing fluid.

    When you say shifting problem when hot sounds like there could be air in the system
     
    MalcQV likes this.
  9. OceanSide760

    OceanSide760 Karting

    Jul 8, 2009
    185
  10. tonyc

    tonyc Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2003
    1,639
    Monterey, CA
    Full Name:
    Tony C
    Interesting puzzle you have there. Does the grinding happen at all RPMs ? When I hear grinding, I always think time to look at the synchros. Replacing M/C fluid was suggested, maybe replace gear oil and look for shavings and have the oil analyzed.

    Also someone mentioned motor and transmission mounts. What is the easiest way to look at them to see if they are shot?
     
  11. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 20, 2018
    5,090
    Houston
    Full Name:
    One4torque
    Bushing, and or adj shifter cables. Gl
     
  12. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2012
    2,005
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robin
    Bleed clutch.

    That doesn’t fix it, you probably need a new clutch and possibly a flywheel re-grind.
     
  13. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,751
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    Do a search from my threads. 430 manual transmission issues.

    I had similar problems. Everything was replaced.. I had a faulty heat exchanger which was replaced but it had leaked fluid into transmission and damaged it. I went to a new mechanic who removed transmission and found problem.

    too much to type right now. But mine shifted perfectly when cold, as it got hotter it was almost impossible to shift. t
     
  14. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    15,875
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    bleed the clutch, then go after other issues. is there film of oil on the coolant in the coolant tank?
     
    MD355 likes this.
  15. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Jul 8, 2016
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    Surely they didn’t have to remove the transmission because of the heat exchanger failure.... did they replace any internals?
     
  16. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,751
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    You have to find my thread. It's all there. No. The heat exchanger was replaced w/o removal of transm but there was internal damage to the transmission. Shifted great when cold, then almost impossible when hot. Now it's way better but doesn't shift as well when hot to this day. Good luck.
     
  17. c928jon

    c928jon Rookie

    May 25, 2010
    36
    I had a hairline crack in the clutch pipe connector/bleed block on the side of the box. It opened up when hot and leaked thus clutch not disengaging properly. 2002 360 Manual
     
  18. c928jon

    c928jon Rookie

    May 25, 2010
    36
    Bleed block PN: 235706
     
  19. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2004
    7,504
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I'm having a similar problem. 2000 6-speed. New intercooler, fresh fluid, new 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th synchros. Fresh gear oil. No recent adverse events.
    The car shifts like warm butter when not hot. When hot, the shifter feels like the transmission is filled with 300 weight gear oil. I know that sounds silly but the point is that the car shifts fine, but negotiating the shift lever around from gear to gear requires much more force. When the car is cold, it's like I could push the shifter around with one finger, if that makes any sense.
     
    JariT likes this.
  20. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,349
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Brian (rifledriver) posted a really good probable cause for this..being the shift shaft bushings within the gearbox. The tolerances are too tight..needlessly..and with heat expand causing them to "grip" the shift shafts resulting in a very difficult shifting.
    Although I have never personally experienced such an issue to that extent, I have noticed some 360s with abnormally tight throws..but have never been authorized to pursue a repair.
     
  21. JariT

    JariT Rookie

    Nov 25, 2011
    42
    Switzerland
    It seems that this has become common topic. I had exactly same problem when gear oil warmed out (same temp with water). Problem was that when gearbox warm, the lower gear shifter forks were moving together and try to engage 2 gears at same time. 3/4 gear control fork (part #000211473) inside of the gear box was replaced and problem was solved. Now gears works better that ever with my 11 year history with the car :)

    I heard that same problem was identified also on another F1 360…..seems to become common topic. Wear could possible relate to heat exchanger problem, as I had that long time ago.

    Part itself is not so expensive around 400USD + gaskets, but gearbox need to be removed for this operation…..will be costly, but worthy
     
    blackbolt22 and EastMemphis like this.
  22. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 28, 2015
    1,147
    MD
    Mine cracked too! After replacing clutch and throwout bearing while bleeding the clutch hydraulic system I could see brake fluid emerge from the black block! Apparently they are cast aluminum and then machined... I chose the Hill replacement.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,751
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    Yes. He said practically same thing recently about my problems. He was kind enough to state the most likely problem and how easy it was to fix, then clams up and gets back to his usual snarky self when you ask him how to repair it. "Find a good mechanic." SOS, different day with him. I don't know why he bothers with us stupid people on this site. He obviously operates on a much higher plane than us regular folks.

    I have owned my 07 430 MT unit since Dec 09. It was great for the first few years . Last 8-9 years nothing but a gigantic pain in the ass. Transmission gets so stiff it isn't fun to drive. Last 7 years practically un-driveable after 15 minutes.

    My mechanic is Ferrari factory trained. Sept 2017 he removed transmission and completely disassembled. Cleaned and inspected each part. It was better but not 100%, more like 65-70% as to when I purchased.

    It slowly went back to hell even worse than ever. Previous mechanic replaced entire clutch, bushing etc etc. It was doing this before everything was replaced. IT DIDN'T HELP AT ALL. NONE. EVERYTHING and I mean everything has been replaced, inspected, flushed, cleaned, adjusted etc etc etc etc etc again and again. There is a thread in this section on my troubles.

    October last year shift cable snapped. It's been at mechanic now for 8 weeks. Took 6 weeks to get shift cables.

    I'm so soured. I wish we had sold this POS and kept wife's 458 . I'm about ready to set it on fire. No kidding.
     
  24. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    I really believe if you would have just got a Different gearbox all your problems would have been solved You would be enjoying the car
     
  25. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran

    Sep 25, 2007
    5,751
    Boca Raton, FL
    Full Name:
    Mr. Anderson
    Yes, I think you're right. My previous mechanic had a line on a brand new transmission for 15k. In hindsight that would have been best choice. That was in 2016. It's not a good sign that my mechanic has had it for going on 9 weeks. New shift cables arrived Friday may 6. It took forever to get them. So almost 3 weeks after arrival, it's still not repaired.

    Without getting too technical, what do you think could be binding up when it gets warm? I think this transmission may have been a lemon and /or the damage from heat exchanger going bad exacerbated the condition.

    I can get a used F1 box for around 10k. Let me know if you have a line on one. Or where to shop for one. Ebay usually has one or two at any time.

    I'm going to pay mechanic a visit this week.

    I really appreciate your advice and concern. You're a good man. Cheers!
     

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