Removing Intake Manifold | FerrariChat

Removing Intake Manifold

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by ColGraves, Aug 13, 2019.

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  1. ColGraves

    ColGraves Karting

    Aug 1, 2017
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    C.T. Graves
    #1 ColGraves, Aug 13, 2019
    Recently had an error P0116 which is an engine coolant sensor. Of course, this puppy is UNDER the intake manifold, and that beast has to come out. It's not the first time I have had to raise this lovely piece, so I thought I would capture notes for myself for both future use as well as to help with reassembly (makes it easier to remember all the things I took off).

    Attached is the PDF of these notes, sharing for feedback and for other's use. If anyone has better approaches, would love to hear them.

    IMPORTANT CAVEAT: I am NOT a mechanic, and am figuring stuff out just like the other guy. This is more than the normal disclosure; I may have crap advice in here! Proceed with caution...
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    #2 Il Tifoso, Aug 13, 2019
    Nice write up - thanks for sharing!

    And thank you for your service Col!

    Ruben
     
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  3. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior

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    #3 Canuck550, Aug 14, 2019
    Thank You, Just what I could use
    Ron
     
  4. ColGraves

    ColGraves Karting

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    #4 ColGraves, Aug 14, 2019
    Upon reassemblying the intake manifold/fuel rail, I noticed a couple of items I missed: The blow back lines at the union in front of the manifold, the third connector for the injector harness (master connector and its support), the throttle cable retainer on the port side (needs to be off to pull the port throttle body away from intake manifold), and the correct count of 10mm bolts securing the intake manifold.

    On another post, a member removed the intake manifold without removing the fuel rails. He used a flex shaft to get around all of the injector hardware. Seems difficult, but I can see the value in doing so if you can master that flex shaft. Curious how tightening torque can be accurate with a flex shaft (not experienced here, just seems that it would not be accurate; but I could be wrong).

    Quick note, when reassemblying, 10nm (88inch-pounds) of torque for the manifold bolts seems to be the consensus on these boards. Also, I went with a dry gasket approach, although I know there is some debate on that. Ricambi has new gaskets for a reasonable price as well. My local dealership, not so much... ;-)
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. ColGraves

    ColGraves Karting

    Aug 1, 2017
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    #5 ColGraves, Aug 15, 2019
    For anyone arriving here because of P0116, let me add a couple of quick notes. I was able to clear this problem up by replacing both temp sensors. They were $27 each at Ricambi (thanks guys), or if you are a glutton for punishment, $76 at my local Ferrari dealer. Only one was bad, but after the effort of removing the intake manifold, I didn't want to do it again for this anytime soon.

    After removing the intake manifold per the above, I prepped the space with absorbent towels. Pull the electrical connectors off, and loosen each sensor with open end wrench, but do not pull them off. Have replacement sensors prepped and ready. Unscrew sensor keeping downward pressure, and as soon as she starts leaking quickly swap it out with a new one. Some radiator fluid will get out. Lather, rinse, repeat with the other one. Tighten up and reconnect wiring.

    At top of the thermostatic valve cover (in front of water line at front of engine block), is a small bolt (part #5 in attached Ricambi diagram). This is not a breather, but will work the same way to get the air you just let into the system out. Remove that, surround it with absorbent towels, and then start to fill the radiator reservoir slowly. Take your time. After awhile, the radiator fluid will start to come out of that hole, and joila, you have bled your coolant lines.

    If you don't do that, you will get one scary hot Ferrari. Ask me how I know...

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  6. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    #6 Motob, Aug 15, 2019
    You don't need a flex shaft to remove the 6mm nuts on the intake manifold. You can just use a 1/4 drive 1omm universal socket with a spring loaded ball that hold the nut in place, Koken sells them. Or you can glue a rare earth magnet in a Snap-on socket for the same effect. You don't have to worry about dropping the intake manifold nut during removal/installation.
     
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  7. ColGraves

    ColGraves Karting

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    #7 ColGraves, Aug 16, 2019
    Great point. I have something like this from Makita on an impact bit for the same reason, and it works like a charm. Putting a small magnet inside the 10mm socket would have been very helpful. Spent too much time fishing slipped bolts in this process.

    The person using the flexshaft was doing so to get around the hardware of the injectors without removing them. That seems to be impossible with a wobble-joint/universal socket, but maybe I didn't study it closely enough. Really tight space in there if the injector rail remains on.
     
  8. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    #8 Motob, Aug 17, 2019
    If you need more room, you can unplug the connectors from the injectors and move them out of the way. But there is no need to remove the injector rail in order to remove the manifold nuts with a 1/4 drive 10mm universal socket. I have done it 40 or 50 times now.
     
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  9. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #9 Lionworks Auto, Dec 19, 2023
    Again appreciating this community as relied heavily on the provided pdf in this thread by @ColGraves to remove fuel rail and the manifold on my 2001 456M. It went very well and incredibly good diagram. In process of tightening and adding proper McMaster lock washers to the cam covers as mine notoriously loosen and then wick oil down the front of the motor, over the belts, and thru the alternator. While I’m in there, replacing several ignition lines as provided by @asgor and bought the after-market electrical kit by @Aerosurfer to direct run the radiator fans to the battery. Have sent the injectors to Mr. injector in Idaho for service and recd back / amazing work! Have purchased the John Deere alternator and having a buddy mill the opening wider as well as swap the pulleys. He’s also very adept with modeling and 3D printing and we attempting to re-create the ferrari-plastic ****ty brackets that route the plug lines along the head. If he gets it right, will offer for sale to any 456, 550, 575 owners as I’ve seen none that aren’t cracked or demolished at this point.

    Can’t wait to put back together soon. Also refinishing the manifold and the throttle bodies in crinkle black (so the motor black on black like my F355). Here are photos of the journey so far….
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  10. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #10 Lionworks Auto, Dec 19, 2023
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  11. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #11 Lionworks Auto, Dec 19, 2023
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  12. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #12 Lionworks Auto, Dec 19, 2023
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  13. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #13 Lionworks Auto, Dec 20, 2023
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #14 Rifledriver, Dec 20, 2023
    Removal of injectors, injector rails or injector electrical plugs is not required to remove manifold nuts when done as Brian described with a 10mm universal socket.

    I have never experienced valve cover allen screws coming loose and causing oil leaks either. There is no reason to deviate from factory method or hardware selection when it is correctly assembled.
     
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  15. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #15 Lionworks Auto, Dec 20, 2023
    Well said. Can’t explain it. But they were loose. I’m a deviation and tired of the issue. Happened twice. So will run like this and see how it goes.


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  16. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #16 Lionworks Auto, Dec 20, 2023
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  17. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #17 Lionworks Auto, Dec 20, 2023
    Also my manifold was a mess / dried wrinkle paint and I knew the injectors needed attention so was needing to take apart all…


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  18. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    #18 Aerosurfer, Dec 20, 2023
    Good luck getting it all back together! Hope its running great when you are done.

    Please reach out to me if you have any harness questions.
     
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  19. Jaredsalinsky

    Jaredsalinsky Formula Junior
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    #19 Jaredsalinsky, Dec 21, 2023
    great job man. let us know how it all turns out.
    what exactly was being shaved down to accommodate the new alternator?
     
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  20. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #20 Lionworks Auto, Dec 22, 2023
    The diameter of the hole needs to be larger and then shaving off the edges.


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  21. dodici

    dodici Karting

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    #21 dodici, Dec 22, 2023
    I also bought the John Deere alternator but when I talked to the local independent electric/AC shop they pointed out that it was identical to a standard alternator that they get rebuilt all the time complete with new diodes. The only difference was the outer case which makes no difference to the rebuilder. So I opted to get the original one inexpensively rebuilt and kept the John Deere for an inexpensive back up.
     
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  22. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #22 Lionworks Auto, Dec 22, 2023
    That’s my plan in reverse for the moment. Keep the cheap one and rebuild the better. Once it’s together and need other work will swap back.


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  23. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #23 Lionworks Auto, Dec 22, 2023

    Installed the fan harnesses today. Couldn’t be easier! Thank you for the thoughtful video and the well packaged items. I have a 456M which didn’t have the bolt near the headlight for the relay bracket but did have a threaded hole I used with the 550 mount and tucked in perfectly…



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  24. scowman

    scowman Formula 3

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    #24 scowman, Dec 23, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2023
    Are you pulling your cam covers? I do not see that in the pictures. Leakey gaskets on those could very well be the source of oil on your alternator. You would need to replace cam seals and belts but it would be a shame to do all that work and still have a leak.

    Blow-by hose from the cam cover can also be a source of oil leak on the alternator. They are really old and likely cracked at this point, but it looks like yours has been replaced with just a hose.

    It's a good opportunity to replace all the hoses and sensors underneath the plenum now. If one of those fails, you are going to have to pull the plenum again.
     
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  25. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

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    #25 Lionworks Auto, Dec 23, 2023
    Agree and thank you for the insights. Have the temp coolant sensors in hand and will replace soon. Just rebuilt the right side headlight lifter and reinstalled. I seem to be good at making a thousand little extra projects along the way.

    The little 7” coolant hose in the valley was replaced several years ago after it blew under the manifold as prior owner didn’t do with rest of hoses and was hidden from view. That wasn’t pleasant but did the valve guides then.

    The cam cover gaskets are only about 2 years old. The bolts were definitely loose on the covers in 5-6 areas and a source of wicking and leaks. I trust the independent that did the work but believe thru vibration or old washers, they loosened (as had happened about 6 years ago to me as well. I know I’ll get burned but I added lock washers).

    Nearly agree on changing the cam gaskets as have a set but also trying to avoid essentially performing my own major at this point as not needed yet…


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