F8 Tributo VS

I think your critique of Ferrari is too harsh. They are not doing a Lamborghini with many many versions of the same car. The 488 was very different to the 458 - all-new styling and different engine. It had the usual variants; coupe and spider, VS coupe and spider. Then the F8 - a stop-gap car due to the necessity to develop the SF90 and the replacement 488/F8 line as hybrids with differing powertrains. This still had all-new styling so was not an old design with a few added wings. They will introduce a spider 812 and a coupe Portofino. Plus the did an all-new model in the range, the SF90 - a sort of modern day Testarossa, at least in its place in the range.

They have filled in gaps in the range and introduced an all-new model. I think it is hard to conclude this is not a mature approach to increasing supply. No doubt the special cars are nice because they have previously kept them rare so for the lucky few they have been good news financially. But this is not realistic long-term and the speculator market is something no brand is really happy with. It is a false reality. Instead of just pumping more of the same out, Ferrari are increasing revenues by filling in gaps and adding all-new models. They are also in part doing what many have long argued for - make more cars of the designs people want to buy. I don’t think there will be significant numbers of extra Pista compared with Speciale but Pista Spider could be 50% more, 812 VS sounds like it will be less limited than TDF. This seems to be a very sensible way to grow the brand and grow revenues. They are investing more to earn more not just milking the same old goat.

It doesn’t really suit my own aims if I’m honest because I am a buyer of most cars that they produce and that is becoming more expensive. In future I think there is no alternative, I’ll have to be more selective. However, from a business perspective, I think they are behaving responsibly towards the brand and their wider customer base and shareholders. They also have a very well established and effective dealer network that can cope with new customers and more product and I don’t expect service levels to diminish.

You said the following:

”Build something new and innovative, something that will drive demand and the price asked. Stay ahead of the competition, offer things others can't or dont. Wow them with service. Act like you care. This is how you stay viable and relevant.”

That is the SF90. You don’t have to like it but no one else did it yet and it fulfils your request - something new and innovative, that will drive demand and the price asked, helps them stay ahead of the competition and is something no one else offers. So I can’t see your argument is valid.

 

The concern for the company is if this becomes commonplace amongst the multiple buyers - already we are hearing of SF90 and even Tributo declines for similar reasons to yours

 

I may not like it but if I try and think beyond my own interests it is the way to more stability in the market - people buy what they want to own and drive, not what they think they can spend 9 months in for no cost. Now, if they begin to produce more cars of each model than there is demand that is a different story. But I don’t think they will do that. I think they are planning an increase in overall production and then trying to maximise revenues by offering more models with varying and mostly increased price levels so that customers who want/can afford the more expensive and premium products will choose those, people who are happy with the more normal and familiarly priced product will stick with those. It seems like an effective way of claiming speculator profits for themselves (and why shouldn’t they) without simply increasing prices, which would have been another option. That would have risked the stability of the market and the buy-in of the traditional customers that they really want - those who buy and use the cars because they like them.

For the moment I have an F8 and an SF90 on order. I won’t order the F8 Spider or an SF90 Spider should one be produced though - I will have a Pista Spider to take care of that. I will turn the F8 quickly though because my garage space is becoming stretched. The 812 Spider promises to be a wonderful car but I will have to think carefully because I am due a TM 812 coupe that I don’t want to just turn over after a year. TM is another part of their strategy - lots of extra dollars for providing something that is very special and unique for customers. Win win?

 

It makes perfect sense actually, because it has nothing to do with lesser parts, but all to do with how the car feels and drives.

The Pista engine has cams that result in a more agressive responsive and higher average rpm output.
The Pista also has a CF intake manifold, whereas the F8 has one in aluminium.
I'm guessing that they also use shorter inlet runners on the Pista manifold that fits with the Pista cam profile.
Lastly, the CF intake serves to shed a bit of weight, and as anyone who's tried to install a phenolic resin spacer below a carb will tell you, such composite materials also act like a great thermal insulator in engines, meaning the Pista can breathe cooler air when pushed

I could put together two engines with the same peak torque an hp numbers, but they would drive vastly different based on heads, cams and intakes. That is what it looks like they have done, and it makes perfect sense.

I'm sure those two cars won't share ECU's nor TCU's either

 

That was the V12 line. They did the same with the 550, 575, and 599.
At the same time, they did the V8 in pairs, so not sure it works like that.
I still get the no on the F8 VS, and this is from someone who knew about the 812 Spider and SF90 a long time ago. If he says no, I believe him, as all info I've gotten in the past has been spot on and he has alway been upfront with me.

 

This is good info I was under the impression that it was the same engine.

 

After you buy the 812 TM and shortly after they introduce the 814 VS then what?

 

Money laundering? Care to show us any proof or just the usual fantasy?

 

" Yes, the F8 Tributo features the same engine ( as the 488 Pista) and boasts similar performance figures"- Top Speed- Mar/19.

" F8 Tributo weighs an impressive 40 kgs. less than the 488 GTB " says Michael Leiters, Ferrari's chief Technology Officer. " The biggest area is the engine, where the adoption of the same power unit as in the 488 Pista, we were able to shed 18 kgs thanks to the adoption , for example, of inconel exhaust headers, totanium con-rods and a lightweight optimized flywheel. To improve on- road driving, the engine has slightly different calibration compared to the narrowly track focused Pista. "

 

I have no qualms with the continuation of the 488 platform with the introduction of the Pista and the F8, both of which will appeal to differing preferences and represent tangible improvements. I do, however, have an issue with a F8 Speciale. What would it offer that is not covered by the Pista and the F8 besides being a limited production, higher priced, gap filling bridge to the fundamentally new models being subsequently introduced. Those who are waiting 18- 24 months for their F8 will be rewarded by owning a model that has been superceded virtually simultaneously to taking delivery. The quest to expand production volume and grow revenue exponentially is understandable for any corporate entity, but a company whose reputation has been meticulously predicated upon on exclusivity and prestige, must tread gingerly in balancing commercial ambitions with client expectations and a carefully evolved corporate ethos that has been integral to Ferrari's success.

 

I don't know what fantasy you are talking about but it is a well known method. Also, wealthy Chinese export funds this way, as they have capital controls in their country.

 

Indeed they used to do that, but it is a fact that the F8 is the 3rd evolution of the original 458 platform (which shows how good that platform is). Thus, an F8 "Pista" seems like a reasonable bet.

 

Just more baseless conjecture as regards to the 250GTO price today.

 

Enjoy your reading sir, even though from what I have fathomed so far, you are not much of a reader... https://www.moneylaunderingnews.com/2019/03/art-and-money-laundering/

 

Talk about hijacking a thread. Does anyone else care about this dispute over money laundering?

 

Not one bit. And my wallet always smell like a fresh mountain breeze.

What ever will be in the F8 engine, time will tell once we can see some part numbers side by side

I think it's a cool idea to do a final Hurrah of the non-hybrids, but until I see a confirmation from Ferrari of the F8 VS, I stick to the notion that it's no go.

 

While I get your point and agree that in general, the exotic car market is getting over saturated with these “special editions” limited to “xx” units... I don’t know that it is necessarily a bad thing.

The way I see it, in 2019, with this, that, and the other all affecting what is deemed to be an acceptable consumer product, these limited run special series give the manufacturers an opportunity to build the version of the car that truly embodies the ethos of each respective brand.

I view the Speciale, Pista, GTO, TDF etc... as the most pure form of each respective model, if Ferrari wasn’t forced to appeal to such a broad market. As a public company with profit being objective #1, Ferrari has to dumb everything down so that it appeals to the broader market. The special series cars allow them to kill two birds with one stone. First, it is a relatively cheap (less $$ spent on R&D) way for them to overcharge for a product and create some additional profit. Second, it’s the perfect excuse for them to actually build the car as it was envisioned from the beginning, without having to appeal to everyone.

Why would we want them to stop making these cars? They are, without fail, a better version of the standard car off of which they are conceived. When you think of all the greatest cars from the past 20 years, they’re almost all limited special series cars. Call it a money grab or whatever you want, but the bottom line is, these cars are epic. Why would we want manufactures to stop making the best cars they can make? At the end of the day everyone wins except maybe a few speculators who bet wrong. Even then, these special addition cars create speculative markets of their own, so even the speculators can’t be too upset.




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Well said

 

I guess you are aren't getting the point either. We all love the special series but they aren't special if they keep pumping out a slightly tweaked version of the last one. You dont have to agree, you can keep playing the game and follow like a good little customer.

 

What if the VS received the SF90 engine

 

All kidding aside, it would be a much better looking hybrid but the extra weight would kill the driving dynamics.

 

You have a valid point. I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I guess my retort would be that although they are coming out with more and more special series cars, they aren’t necessarily making any more of any one series.

It’s not like they made 2,000 TDF’s or 5,000 Pista’s. There was only 799 TDF’s made (correct me if I’m wrong) and I’m guessing less than 2,000 Pistas (again, correct me if wrong). These are rare cars and owners should feel pride in the fact that there were so few ever produced.

To me, it doesn’t matter how many different special series they come out with, as long as each special series is truly special and limited. I would; however, have a problem if they started producing the special series cars by the thousands... as if they were regular production. In that scenario, the brand would most certainly be diluted.


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The 4.0 from the SF90 would be my bet. Just as the 765 LT will likely receive a ‘detuned’ Senna engine.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login I’m just coming back from the Pebble Beach concourse. I was there for the unveiling of the “new limited edition” Aventador svj 63. What makes it limited? It’s a special paint job and they are making 63 of them.

So freaking lame. The svj spider was supposed to be the last v12 Aventador- till the spider came along, and then the spider 63 and then god knows what else.

It was just stupid and the entire audience kinda rolled their eyes. There was nothing limited or nothing special. It was a money grab and there are 63 die hard lambo fans that will buy a bowl of dog poo as long as the bowl has a bull on the side.

But the rest of the market- lame.

There may be an f8 VS but move on ferrari- you’ve milked this platform long enough.

For your viewing pleasure- the “limited edition” svj 63 roadster

 

No , just the ICE engine