Someone will definitely find a way at some point. The questions whether or not it is worth the hassle.
not me.. but, that's where it started (GPF): Clean-Gasoline Proposals Fuel Environmentalists’ Ire https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/clean-gasoline-proposals-fuel-environmentalists-ire Liz Newmark | Nov 01, 2016 BRUSSELS – A leaked draft of proposals for a new European Union regulation on real-driving emissions from cars and light-commercial vehicles would allow the vehicles to emit 50% more potentially lung-cancer-causing particulates than under current air-quality standards, an environmental group claims. <...> For T&E, the solution to these ineffective tests is a stricter regulation demanding automakers fit a gasoline-particulate filter on all new gasoline-powered cars, which it claims would result in emissions being about 100 times lower. <...> ACEA also warns using gasoline-particulate filters “will likely require a complete redesign of the exhaust system and surrounding bodywork and/or components,” so legislation must be introduced “in a timely manner to give manufacturers legislative certainty,” the spokesman says.
already been done for other makes, but, requires ECU reprogramming, and unless your Ferrari is out of warranty or you don't care...you take a risk BMW: http://www.millteksport.com/gpf-opf-delete-pipe-with-hi-flow-cats-ssxbm1092.html disclaimer:GPF/OPF Bypass software is required on the vehicles ECU in most cases. VW: http://www.millteksport.com/downpipe-with-gpf-opf-catalyst-delete-ssxvw544.html disclaimer:Requires Stage 2 ECU Remap MB: http://www.millteksport.com/gpf-opf-delete-pipe-ssxmz126.html disclaimer:Required Stage 2 ECU Remap
Thank you again. DPF is a real issue here. Motoring giant Toyota is facing a legal headache with a class action launched in the Federal Court against the Japanese company that could affect up to 250,000 Australia drivers. Two legal firms have alleged certain models of the Australia’s top selling car — the Hilux — as well as the Prado and Fortuner vehicles have defective equipment installed that have affected their performance. I understand this is a defect but I believe it would be suicidal in Ferrari installed the GPF for Australia, given also the fact the requirements of the GPF to function properly. Man I wonder whats going to happen to all those Ferrari's that don't get driven ? Dare say Ferrari will put a clause in their warrantee. MUST DRIVE We have the Australian premier showing of the F8 next week. Hope I can find out 100% yes or no or what they have planned. Hopefully there will be a Few Ferrari people there.
another reference..no speculation required, actual evidence: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/frankfurt-motor-show/new-ford-mustang-arrives-europe-next-year Curiously the 2.3-litre four-cylinder Mustang has less power than it did pre-facelift – just 286bhp, down from 313. Ford tells us this is because the EcoBoost ‘Stang has “Gas Particulate Filter (GPF) technology”, which helps with emissions but increases back pressure in the exhaust, and reduces “the steady state horsepower of the engine”. that's about an 8% loss...meaning, if GPF could be removed there would be a noticeable horsepower increase, just like removing catalytic converters..except GPF is a more interactive device that cats hence the need to reprogram the engine controllers
link here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-australia-lawsuit/toyota-faces-australian-class-action-over-claims-of-faulty-diesel-filters-idUSKCN1UR45Q That would be a very good data point to help resolve this matter of what happens in other countries where other makes such as Porsche have already made it known they will not use GPF devices (in Australia), see if you can get a Ferrari technical supervisor's input at the reveal...
Bizarre - you will see from these boards that I am not some joker. Just went back to Ferrari and was told same, GPF is on current Pista but you cannot discern this visually or aurally. Wonder why its all so cloak and dagger (opaque). Maybe they know its a huge turn off. Strange.
I've just been through some very exciting EU documents and unless I am mistaken GPF becomes obligatory only for homologation after 1/1/20 OR registration after 1/1/21 - in other words the Pista does not need them (but even so they may be fitted) since production should be complete by 1/1/21 - conversely F8 & SF90 will need them - if (as seems likely) the 812 spider is to be produced in 2121 it will need GPF (I think the spider will require separate homologation - happy to be corrected) which may or may not mean the 812 will get it but then the 812VS will have to have them as will November's new car
I am not questioning you at all, I believe you are conduit, the messenger, I'm good with you. However, what you are referring to has not occurred. I am thinking you are being provided with misinformation. The only way for such a GPF to not be visible per-se is if it is part of what is called a 4-way catalyst: https://www.basf.com/global/en/media/science-around-us/catalytic-converter.html Here is more on why I believe you are being provided misinformation: [ 1 ] https://magazine.ferrari.com/en/cars/2019/03/06/news/ferrari-f8-tributo-inside-story-55153/ Marzio Maresi – engine - says: “To fulfil new emissions and noise regulations, we needed to change the exhaust. That meant changing various engine parts and revalidating the engine, driveability and sound.” The only visible changed parts are the new aluminium intake manifold, and exhaust. Mechanical engineer Fontana adds: “we had to achieve the right sound with the new exhaust. We worked for six months together as a team, to create the best sound possible, both inside and outside the cabin.” The F8 is the first Ferrari to receive GPF devices. [ 2 ] The 488GTB/Spider are discontinued, and the F8 suddenly replaced, why? Normally these models have a 5 year run, but this, only 4 years and the VS (Pista) arrived in the 3rd model year...there is a reason for that...) Because those cars were developed prior to EU's GPF regulations (announced in early 2017), same with the Pista, that's why there is a "mad rush" at the factory to complete the Pistas before 1/1/2020 (rumor is Camilleri has negotiated a small reprieve on GPF mandated for 488Pista until 3/1/20, but not announced, MAYBE your Ferrari insider can confirm?) [ 3 ] Sound, have you compared the F8 which has been publicly confirmed to have GPF and the Pista which supposedly has the identical engine? vast difference, which does not correlate at all if the Pista had GPF (which is most certainly does not) https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv7K91mhCK_/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=gvua1hyqv9wl (F8 rev on showroom) Forward this video to the 4minute 20second mark (F8 rev on showroom, forward video to 4minute 20second mark) (F8 rev at show in Abu Dhabi) (Pista on street)
812 spider will have GPF which must mean 812 coupe will change at the same time. It is clear there has been a delay on pista spider production, possibly to max out the coupe numbers before the change to a GPF equipped car? Maybe the Pista spider will adopt the F8 installation ( I know some say they are different, but are they really ?) with the Spider maybe less critical for sound. They toned down the 458 for the spider installation. For 812 spider some dealers have been told there will a system to pipe sound into the cabin to give the same appeal to the driver, but external sound is muted. Strange there is so little information at dealer level as it will be visually obvious when GPF is fitted and from above videos the sound will be massively different. Impact on engine output also of interest, maybe turbo easier to compensate , but on the V12 ? Increased weight 20kg ? As we move electric, sound will be no more so it is just first step to a new world where sound is removed from the driving experience . Huge challenge for a brand like Ferrari.
Oh man I was wondering when Ferrari would resort to piping sound into the cabin. Ugh I hope they don’t eventually end up piping in artificial sound. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Some great posts, my same source (now maybe discredited ugg) said Ferrari are grappling with major imminent exhaust noise restrictions which will be the next turn off !
With all due respect to you and your source, this is old news. The relevant EU legislation was passed in 2014, to come into effect in stages, the next one being July 2020. see ANNEX III for table of decibel values. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32014R0540 Everything notches down a couple of db next year. No drama as far as I can see.
So from what you are saying my car due in Q1 next year will be the same specification as a car delivered last month?
Yes. The car is already homologated. No car that is homologated before 1/1-2020 is required to have a GPF. However, all new cars sold after 1/1-2021 including cars homologated prior to 2020, must also have a GPF. This is making me think about the 812 Spider. If that car is homologated for the September launch, and seeing it's a low volume car. If Ferrari was to only produce them from say October this year until December 2020, that would in fact mean that the 812 Spider would not need a GPF. Food for thought.
Ferrari will most likely equip the UK cars with GPF as well. Production will be easier if everything is the same.
I hope not. Note sure why they wouldn't do a non-GPF for Rest of the World (ROW). ROW is most of Ferrari's revenue not EU. Will also allow Ferrari to maintain sound as one of the main selling points. In todays manufacturing world GPF and non-GPF variants would not be a challenge IMO
I thought the same. Going back to the discussion of when Pista production will end, if it ends in 2019 December- then all F8s will have GPF, Pista no GPF. But if Pista production continues through next spring, will 2019 build models have no GPF and anything after Jan 1 has GPF? Or do they do GPF for EU and non GPF for ROW? So on the same line GPF and non GPF Pista and GPF f8? Very confusing. Hopefully someone can shed some light on the situation.
It would sure be nice if Ferrari themselves could shed some light on the situation! For MONTHS I have inquired with Ferrari North America regional reps, service reps, dealership owners, etc etc and NOBODY has been able to provide ANY info or guidance with regard to whether North America spec 2020 812 Coupes or Spyders will receive the GPF. I would sure think that these questions should be at the top of everyone's list during the 812 Spyder unveiling in Maranello during the first week of September (i.e. "Universo Ferrari" event).
Can’t believe they would pipe sound into the cabin? Rather have a poorer but more honest sound than artificial nonsense. If they were going to pipe sound into the cabin the 488 would have been the car to do that because a turbo should have more impact on sound than a GPF surely? I also struggle to believe they will reengineer the spider with GPF for a few cars unless the existing ones have it too.
