Correct. This mother-of-all-restoration will cost many, many Dollares, Euros, Rubel, Pengö, Yen, etc...! To start the resto a very comprehensive research is need to get it correct. Its clearly a concourse car and Pebble B. is very demanding. Nothing on this car is common business like -for example- a 3500GT etc.! In my humble opinion the resto can only be done in Italy (no matter how good Paul Russell is...).
i examined the car carefully. It was not that bad, just looked terrible. I recommended it to my client (he did not bid), as it would be a very straight forward restoration. All the expensive stuff was still there. Mechanical's are no problem. This car will make money for somebody.
Can you please elaborate on you why think the resto has to be done in Italy? Is it issues involving competence, authenticity, or what? Regarding parts, I would think today's global logistics function well enough, so obviously that is not a major issue, but perhaps an optimal resto requires insight and (tacit) knowledge only found in Italy?
Dyke You having examined the car I’ll Take your expertise on the restoration, but it is going to be expensive, there is no getting around that. The question is what is the current market for a coach built 5000 GT? The fact that the Michelotti car only bid to 600k has to give one pause. Assume you know the identity of the new owner. Top 20 member of “The Key”?
The car was something that you definitely had to see in person to appreciate the scope of the work required. My restorer and I spent a couple hours inspecting the car with RM and I bid on the car in room to $350K. I restored 5000 GT 034 and know these car well The great thing about the Ghia was that it was all there in "spirit", only the air box cover on the top of the engine was missing. That said, over 60 percent of the body was gone either literally with a gaping hole or so thin that you could poke your finger through it, there were no floors in the car, the sun roof opening had completely rotted away, and hood and trunk were only patterns to go by to make new ones. The restoration done correctly to the level required to show and win, we estimated to be around $650k. $250k plus just for metal and paint alone. It is a vanity project clear and simple where economics are not a factor... the Michelotti 5000 failed sell at $600K and the Indianapolis 5000gt at 2016 Gooding sale was a spectacular car that made $1.5 million. I don't see the boat load of cash to be made but it would be a lot of fun to restore!
Italiancars: I do not know the identity of the new owner. 5000GT's are an acquired taste and some people consider this car to be the best looking of them all, hence a higher value when restored.
No, actually I am not kidding myself. I could restore this car to a higher standard than when built for under purchase price. $250K for paint and metal work is insane....... Chris, I’m feeling sincerely sorry your restorer quoted you those numbers....I understand “theose numbers”, but there are other avenues out there that will achieve the result as your quote, for far less cost. Too bad you didn’t get the car.... The article regarding the restoration by journal.classic cars made broad obvious points, all laughable. “Is the car even worth restoring?” Laughable.
Hello 3500GT. Allow me to say with courtesy and a smile that your statement above is why the car should be restored in Italy. We don't want it to become a shiny Burago as was the tendency some years ago at Pebble Beach: over restorations and paints that were far too modern that made the cars look like plastic toys. A car should be restored EXACTLY as it was built not customized, improved OTHER than better brakes and cooling if the owner is not a trailer queen type and on the condition that such modifications be invisible and reversible. Paints should be period correct of the type that develops a patina. It is the creation of the preservation class at Pebble Beach a couple of decades ago which has allowed many cars to remain original as opposed to senselessly over restored and ALSO has allowed a better appreciation by the pro restorer community about when not to go too far, your statement appears to have missed that trend. In 2006 I spent six months in Modena indexing a huge Maserati photo archive at Adolfo Orsi's home office, in Italian. During that period I went many times to the restoration workshops in the area that restored cars for Adolfo's clients and which he supervised. We went with Raffaele Gazzi his business partner for the auction data year book they produce and client services as well as Fiorenzo Fantuzzi son of Medardo who built so many great bodies in period, Fiorenzo himself restoring many in the 80's in his own shop. These visits were to inspect the progression of restorations Adolfo was supervising for clients. Well They would passionately discuss the placement of a tail light the sheen of a part, the way this or that component had to appear and mesh with others...so the expertise is definitely around Modena and start with huge research done the old fashioned way with Maserati Classiche's help and beyond. I don't have a stake in this by the way just sharing my convictions.
Totally Agreed! However---$250K for paint and metal work is beyond insane---it insults the intelligence of us all! Regards.
I agree the cars probably should be restored in Modena. Not that there aren’t plenty of shops elsewhere that could do the work, but there are still a number of period Maserati employees and sub contractors in Modena area whose knowledge could be tapped. Access to the factory records, specs, sources etc.
Thank you for your perspective. I understand and appreciate it. My quote was “I ‘could’ restore this car to a ‘higher standard’ than when built”. Meaning, if I wanted to achieve that result I could do it for less $$ than the purchase price. I also could paint the car in enamel or lacquer with proper orange peal, overspray and factory runs and drips. Use low quality chorme and interior bright work that corrodes in months; as per original. Not difficult to achieve. If it were my choice, I would be most focused on the engine/drivetrain and the interior. Especially the engine as it’s really the heart and soul of most Maserati cars post 1950. I expect the car to be offered soon for sale at twice the auction sale price.... As for the car “needing” to be restored in Italy to be “right” or correct, I understand that notion. On the other hand, haven’t many, many award winning and “correct” Mercedes restorations emerge from the MB facility in the USA? I know some of the crew there, they have an “international” and MB standard. Just a thought, I’m not saying I’m right, just an opinion.
Unfortunately Maserati Classiche does not restore cars in Italy, even less so in the US or anywhere else, they just provide documentation and historical support and the knowledge for classic Maserati is even more important because each one is different, even from one 3500GT to another of the same year...whereas as one of the dozen restorers I visited this year told me, he used to restore Mercedes Pagodas and 190SL convertibles and they are all the same whereas when he discovered Masers he realized the were built by craftsmen who adjust each part individually, no two are alike...so when you are talking about a one off like this Ghia, if it were mine since saturday and I had my choice I would not think twice where to do it because yes the expertise is there, some of the people are still there and can make sure it comes out right.
Good points to, and i agree. In the end, I’m just glad for the Maserati “community” and collector car world that this car was “discovered” and hopefullly will be saved and restored irrespective of who restores it and where it is redstored. I’m secencerly, glad it has re-emerged and will be saved!
Yes it was wonderful to see it emerge as we all thought it lost and it will be very special to see it finished at a show somewhere in a couple of years
While over restoration is an issue with many cars today, there is also the question of using lower quality materials of yesteryear vs higher quality material available today. Case in point, when Audi set about restoring the famed Auto Union race cars in their collection, an analysis of the quality of the aluminum used originally had the purity of an old folding aluminum law chair. Obviously you would not restore the car with that type of period correct material.
The resto of this car will become very difficult. But its worth all efforts. As of the engine: this V8-type was known for his unreliability. To my knowledge only 3 shops have the experiance to get the engine reliable today - none of them is in the USA. Another question is the color. The car was born in silver and was later repainted in this blue-ish green. So which color should be taken on the car today?
Walter: The engine in this 5000GT is NOT related in any way to the 450S engine. It is the later V-8 that became the Quattroporte and Ghibli motor. No trick at all to rebuild. You must also give me some credit, we rebuilt our 450S motor here in the US, and anybody who saw it run at Monterey last year will admit we can rebuild these engines.
I respectfully, completely disagree here. If you are actually restoring a car to it's original configuration, then you use the materials that were used in the period the car was built. Otherwise you are building something different. If for example you are restoring a leather shoe from the 15 century, and that shoe was made of deer hide, you don't use cow hide to restore that shoe because it's stronger and more available. You use the materials that the item was originally made from, or you aren't restoring anything, you are just making a different item. Same with automobiles. The only derivation on that would be mechanical internal parts, e.g. pistons, bearings, gears etc., or items that are absolutely no longer available. I totally understand others points of view, and a car owner can do ANYTHING they wish to do with their car. Change color, different engine, trans, tires, wheels etc. But then you aren't really restoring as per original, your are just refurbishing something to your personal tastes. And that is fine. I am adamant about this point,..... the Ghia 5000GT in my humble opinion, MUST have the correct original tires that it came with, even if they are NOS 45 year old tires for show. Not new Verdistien or Longstone reproductions. Original tires "make" or "set" the look of the car. Did anyone get the Borrani RW number from the wheels? 3872? Just my .02 Lira....
Without question, the ORIGINAL silver. Although, I understand the reasons if the car is painted another color. Does Ghia or Maserati have the production records for this car? Has anyone asked Fabio?
3500GT: Ghia has nothing left of any records. All seem to have disappeared into the mists of time. Maserati on the hand, thanks to Mr. Cozza, probably has the Build Sheets for the car with the mechanical specs.
Just have to say that this thread is an example of what I wish the rest of FChat threads were like -- courteous posters exchanging knowledge and opinions without p****** on each other. I congratulate you all.
The resto of this car will become very difficult. But its worth all efforts. As of the engine: this V8 was known for his unreliability. To my knowledge only 3 shops have the experiance to get the engine reliable today - none of them is in the USA. Another question is the color. The car was born in silver and was later repainted in this blue-ish green. So which color should be taken on the car today? Dyke, I did NOT mention anything about the 450S engine. Yes, the 5000GT motor had nuttin`to do with the "bazooka" motor! The 5000GT engine had many issues and even the factory was unable to get it reliable.
Well, thats a very strange comparison! To restore a shoe from the 15th Century is a little different than restoring a car (which is a mechanical working subject!) also alone for safety reasons. Nobody will wear a shoe that old... Just my 2 Prada shoes!
They have a lot more records than they let on. For what it’s worth. One night over Dinner and drinks at Pavarotti’s Europa 92, with a wily old smile and a twinkle in his eye Ermanno said to me “we have everything.”
Walter: I would very much appreciate anything you can tell me about the problems with the 5000GT engine. I do know one of them, and that was internal balancing. All the V-8's up into the Ghibli production had crankshafts that were out-of-balance from the factory! The factory's balancing equipment was not set up correctly and the V-8 engines suffered from internal balance issues. This is why the 450S motors and possibly the 5000GT motors had a "shake" that would just not go away. Finally, Maserati purchased a state-of-the -art balancer (this is all mentioned in Cozza's book) and the engine "shakes" began to go away. For example, our 450S factory crank was out-of-balance by almost 100 grams (1/4 pound!!). We made a new crank and the motor is smooth beyond belief.
