488 Has any owner weighed the Pista yet?

Do you know what people say about the JD Power surveys?

They are like horoscopes. For entertainment purposes only.

 

They are like a more expensive Yelp for sure...

 

From your report...

- Toyota dominated a prestigious annual study on vehicle dependability, but General Motors was close behind and German automakers improved markedly this year.

- Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and VW all showed improvement, as every German automotive brand beat the industry average for the first time in the study's 30-year history.

Different countries, different results. The theme is still the same. You would expect higher price producers to all be at the top of the tree but they are not consistently. First time in 30 years all German brands were even above average! The original conversation was about truly low volume producers - even harder for them to do quality despite being able to afford high unit cost of production. With Fiat being at the bottom, I never said that high volume always equals high reliability. Only that lower volume makes high reliability harder. And very low volume makes high reliability very hard to do.

I have looked at many such studies over the years for numerous European countries, same theme. Japanese, Koreans do well, prestige Germans are very mixed, often in the bottom half, Italians and British almost always low/bottom. Unfortunate for us Brits but it’s a fact.

 

People here suggested Lambo and Pagani as counter-examples to your "low volume leads to low reliability" theory, brands which you say you are not familiar. with.

You then quoted this JD survey in support of your theory. i just quoted it right back at you with low volume Lexus and Porsche at the top. I personally place no value in these surveys since the results are all over the place.

On the other hand, there is nothing consistent in there to support your theory. How you continue to maintain that this survey somehow supports your theory defies logic.

 

Nicely put.

 

At worst case the dealer shouldn't have given it to you this way. I wonder if my 488 GTB was presented to me perfect because of my continual worry about other people with poorly presented paint jobs and they went the extra mile ?

 

It is not the end of the world and lets not get too hung up on it. The car is wonderful and I am still thrilled to be enjoying it. My bigger point is that Ferrari is just as guilty as others in delivering less than perfect cars.

 

Here’s a pic of Lexus’ main production hub in Japan. Notice the logo.... And as for Porsche, they produce more than quarter of a million cars, very few of them the high performance 911 range. Therefore that survey will be mostly from Macan, Cayenne, Panamera customers simply because there are more of them. Those are mid-volume models in the grand scheme of things. And when ever have you seen Porsche so high in a reliability survey? Very very rare I can tell you (a point hinted at in the news report you yourself quoted). So your US version of JD Power (as opposed to the UK one I quoted) still supports my point unfortunately. P.S. I’m not anti Porsche, I love them and regularly own them (have a Pan and a 3RS at the moment).

To be honest, I’m a bit tired of arguing about something that across the whole motor industry is simply generally accepted knowledge. Apologies if I’ve irritated you over a stupid argument. Cheers
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

True! The Macan (I have one), Cayenne, Panamera share 60 to 75% parts with Audi Q5/7 A6/8 etc. The 911 is 90% unique using just 10% of the parts from VW group and as we say in this neck of the woods "andere Baustelle"...
Still make no mistake, its the family P cars that pay for the 911's continued and better research. They pay for the whole thing so thank you people that buy family type P cars for the amazing 911's!

Another fun fact: 75% of all 911's ever made are still circulating on the roads today! Who else can say that?! Amazing cars! OK, my TS was not so alive as the 458 but damn, what a great engineering they have.

 

I am looking forward to the thousands of Ferrari SUVs soon, and magical improvement in quality of our F sports cars that is supposed to follow as a result

 

Possibly but mostly brand dilution which is sad...

 

For many years after its introduction, the Cayenne had a miserable reliability record. Better in the last few years.

There still is no rationalizing or excusing, substandard paint finishing or fitment irregularities that need to be corrected after delivery. This issues should be, without equivocation, be corrected at the factory prior to shipping.

 

The suvs are the cash cow which drives development of the high end sports cars. I can see exactly why Ferrari needs to get in on that action asap. They really should have got on that boat years ago when Porsche did. But it's never too late, although now the new cash cows appear to be full electric and the Italians have some way to go based on current performance in that area even if they are ahead of the Brits. Like big deal. Being second last is no consolation.

 

Don’t get me started on full electric. No car manufacturer ever made a penny piece on EV and they still can’t. In Europe they all have to meet average fleet emissions. They can do this two ways - build a proportion (about 30% to meet 2025 requirement) of their fleet as EV or pay the fines. If they choose fines then car prices go up. If they choose EV, they can’t produce them cheaply enough because they all have to buy in their power train technology from battery producers (which is where the profit goes). So they have to subsidise EVs to make sure the 30% of customers they need by 2025 actually buy the EV variant. How much they subsidise EVs depends on how unpopular they are with consumers. And guess who pays the subsidy for a manufacturer’s EVs? The customers buying the gasoline cars. So prices still go up. I wonder if the consumer knew that increased regulations is going to severely increase the cost of cars over the next 10 years, whether you buy electric or not? And had they known by exactly how much they will be affected would there have been more opposition to some very questionable regulations? The EU surprisingly belatedly have realised they just left the back door to their prize industry open to the Chinese while building a wall to stop them coming in the front. What will their reaction be? Too late to beat the Chinese at the battery game so they will have to start competing in other areas - safety for example - that might allow them to squeeze the Chinese out. Guess what that means (and in a rare return to the original subject of this thread...) extra weight.

How much of this applies to Ferrari who knows? Maybe their high retail price will help them. But I’ll bet the first Ferrari EV is a PuroSangue.

 

Agreed, I'm chalking it up as part of the Italian experience to put a positive spin on it as I'm thrilled with my 488, but my front wheel came chipped (replaced by dealer) and turns out I'm missing a tiny black plastic part to cover the driver's seatbelt bolt (will be replaced)

I don't think any marque is immune from hopefully small issues, even Porsches which are mass produced in spades gave me some issues I needed them to fix under warranty

Just looking at an 812 in a showroom, look at what I came across (likely an easy fix to stuff back under the panel)



Image Unavailable, Please Login